Comments on: Stupid Fatwah of The New Year

By: i ali

i ali — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 16:20:00 +0000

ahmad, with all due respect you are caught up in the shams of satan, as the profs were all laid down properly and trust me your interpretation of the verses stated by Allah and surely supported by the words of Rasul and the stars that can after the Rasul like Umar[ra] maybe i might be wrong based on your views but a religious view will contradict all your interpretations as rejections of faith leaving a harsh un-wanted deem of saying rejection of Qur,aan untimately leaves you to kufr, also displeasing sahaba is displeasing Rasul and displeasing Rasul is displeasing Allah trust me Scholars are the inheritors of the prophets[as] therefore a logical societal concept by non-scholars are left only to approval by scholars who have the authority of the Rasul once it corresponds with the final actions and rulings of the Rasul and Qur’aan. thanking you for an informed loving acceptance as we all think is right is sorry to be said as rejected by the Lord of the worlds our creator so who should we follow? its just rhetorical.

By: Meer

Meer — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 07:27:58 +0000

TA, how do you go from saying “Merry Christmas” to committing shirk? You are actually saying a person is committing shirk when he/she had not done anything close to it. That is just mind boggling. Does Islam say that a person is a murderer if he/she says they’ll kill someone… they’ll actually have to commit the murder to be deemed a murderer. So your logic is quite baffling. And also how does that relate to New Years, Hanukah, and Thanksgiving? As Ahmad so rightly put it… the burden of proof in Islamic legal system is to prove the prohibition of the act, not the other way around. Since, there isnt any prohibition dictated in the Quran and Hadith, it is an issue at the very least, Islam is neutral about (it is a muba’ issue). On a side note, Haram and Halal are just two categories- under the umbrella of Halal we have Makruh (Permissible, but recommended to avoid), Muba’ (Neutral), Mandub (Recommended to do) and Fard (Mandatory).

By: G Ali

G Ali — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:28:16 +0000

To TA and the other converts who ‘extricated themselves’ from various ‘pagan’ attitudes and sensibilities, the following should be of note:
1) The multiple layers of irony in the usage of ‘pagan’ is one of those things that should make you go ‘huh’ -while scratching your head. Paganism is a wholly Christian Catholic Church coinage referring to any practice that strayed from doctrine as constructed by the early Christian ‘Fathers,’ including the opinion of other Christian ‘Fathers’ who disagreed with the Head Father In Charge. Initially, the latin root meant something similar to a country bumpkin, but Father Church wanted everyone to toe its line, and paganism was that defining term used to lump everyone. So the natural question that arises here is shouldn’t this concept of paganism by a Muslim be haram since it’s taken from the religious beliefs of the ‘non-Muslim’. How can following their actions be haram but following their beliefs (i.e. adhering to the accepted meaning and conception connoted by the word pagan/paganism) be justified.
2) Point #1 might be taken as way too flippant and over-the-top, and so for the sake of the argument let’s say our intent for using ‘paganism’ is to translate ‘jahiliyyah’ – and that is how I used to reason the translations. Jahiliyyah/Jaahil, kufr/kafir, shirk/mushrik, Ahl-ul-Kitab, ‘sila-tul rahim’ (maintaining the family ties), and actions regarding them all have specific and distinct fiqh rulings. More to the point, these rulings tended to differ based on the jurist, his era, home, patron, juristic ‘school’ affiliation, and the person seeking the juristic opinion. To adequately apply those quoted juristic opinions that were lumped into the fatwah, one needs to carefully look at one’s situation as a convert Muslim and one’s parents, family, etc., who are not practicing Muslims and their religious affiliations. Are those family members are Ahl-al-Kitab, Mushriks (don’t know who actually fall under this rubric nowadays in America), Kafir, etc., etc. Additionally, are the parents and family members actively at war against the ‘prophetic mission of the day’ – (dunno how to reason this part since the Muslim world don’t operate under a single agenda). The ‘over-the-top’ objection might again be raised, to which a sufficient review of the Quranic usage of these terms as well as the Muslims’ behavior in Mekka and Madinah with each group should be in order. such a review will show that terms such as ‘non-Muslims’ is insufficient to describe the various actors, their beliefs AND actions for or against Muslims, and the Quranic and prophet stance toward these beliefs and actions. That we tend toward simplistic and monolithic generalizations of what was a very multi-layered and nuanced situation may have more to do with contemporary political or personal psychological needs than with the Quran and Prophetic Sunnah.
3) Another irony is the comment that Waj’s reading of a few books doesn’t make him a scholar. The irony here is that the fatwah itself appears to have been cobbled together from a few books and fatwahs to support a preconceived opinion. Since I’m only here addressing fellow convert Muslims, for this fatwah to be relevant it must contextualize you and who you are when providing a coherent perspective of celebrations/eids. Why is it for example that these fatwas never mention that during the eids, some people used to sing war songs that celebrated wars between the Aws and Khazraj (a Jahili occasion for sure) in the prophetic presence. Why don’t these fatwas weigh the major sin of insulting one’s mother and father, and major obligation of maintaining permanent family ties, against actions in relation to which are minor.

Finally, a rejection of Christianity, Judaism, Paganism, etc., doesn’t imply a rejection of Christians, Jews, or pagans/country bumpkins, and especially one’s country bumpkin family members. After a decade of doing so myself, and seeing others do the same, I believe – and can see the results – that this bodes ill not only for one’s sense of self and connection to one’s roots, it will do irreparable damage to one’s children, and the yet to be born.

By: mir

mir — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:15:01 +0000

I dont know about you guys, but last I checked intention counted for something (significant) in Islam. ‘Merry Christmas’ translated/intended as “I hope you have a wonderful time off with the family” is very different from ‘Merry Christmas’ translated/intended as “Greetings on the birth of you Lord/God”!
How many of us really imply the latter and do we believe that God who knows are innermost thoughts will mistake one for the other?
Stop quoting fatwas and sunnah’s, use you common sense OR show me some place it says ‘in the quran, sunnah or hadith’ where it says not to use your sense.

By: IJK

IJK — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:51:50 +0000

@ Ahmad Z.

I think he was referring to the modern form of the Christmas holiday, which had not developed into what it is today during the time of the Prophet (saw).

Also, his point isn’t about respecting or not respecting Christians. We all can agree that it is important to respect people of the Christian faith. His point is that you can respect Christians without saying “Merry Christmas” or exchanging gifts. Those elements are not necessary to constitute respect of a people and their religion.

To say that the only way Muslims can respect Christians is to say “Merry Christmas” and play Secret Santa with them is a very strange argument to make, at least to me. The above “Stupid Fatwa” does not breach conditions of mutual respect between the two religions and merely gives rulings on where Muslims cease to partake in the religious and cultural practices of the Christmas holiday.