“Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslim men”: The Goatmilk Debates
“THE GOATMILK DEBATES” will be an ongoing series featuring two debaters tackling an interesting or controversial question in a unique, irreverent manner.
Each debater makes their opening argument. They can elect to post a rebuttal.
The winner will be decided by the online audience and judged according to the strength of their argument.
The motion: “Muslim Women Should Be Able to Marry Non-Muslim Men”
For the motion: Nadia S. Mohammad and May Alhassen [Read her piece here]
Against the motion: Sister Soul [Read her piece here]
For the Motion – Nadia S. Mohammad – “Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslim men”
When Huma Abedin, aide to Hilary Clinton, married Anthony Weiner, New York Congressman, it sent tongues wagging in the Muslim community. She did the unthinkable, the ultimate taboo for a good Muslim girl from a good Muslim family – she married a Jew… and he did not convert. O-M-G. The question that makes even the most open-minded Imams squirm was revived – Can a Muslim woman marry a non-Muslim man? The answer in all the major schools of thought has traditionally been a resounding NO. Absolutely, not. Not ever. Haraam, sister.
The response only begs the next question, but why? It is not prohibited in the Qur’an. Few modern scholars feel comfortable forbidding it for that reason. Yet, few are actually willing to articulate this in an official forum. Dr. Abou El Fadl is an example of a scholar who has openly and candidly addressed the issue of Muslim women marrying “men of the Book.” In his response he explains his dislike of the issue and his tendency to avoid answering the question. He describes the traditional thought and then goes on to mention that he, personally, finds the evidence regarding the prohibition to be weak and does not feel comfortable telling a woman she cannot marry a kitabiyya [People of the Book.]
I am not a scholar, but Dr. Fadl’s response echoes the sentiments I have heard from other scholars as well. As such, the bases for this opinion are two ayats [Qu’ran verses], the opinions of scholars I have questioned, and my own research. This opinion does not apply to marriages where one converts to another’s faith. Additionally, for the purposes of this discussion I recognize that we live in a patriarchal society and I am not contesting the traditional roles ascribed to men and women as per our cultural patriarchy.
What God Says: Qur’anic Law
The Qur’an addresses marriage to non-Muslims in two instances :
1. “And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you.” [Qur’an 2:221]
2. “And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers.” [Qur’an 5:5]
There are several absolute truths we can establish from these two ayats. The first is that a differentiation is made between non-Muslim “People of the Book” (those of the Judeo-Christian faith) and non-Muslim polytheists. This distinction determines that both men and women are not permitted to marry anyone who associates another god with God. That is pretty straightforward and not to be contested. The next point is that men are permitted to marry chaste Muslim, Jewish or Christian women when certain duties are upheld. We generally accept this at face value as our right to marry. We also accept from this that though Muslim women are not directly addressed, if Muslim men are given permission to marry Muslim women then naturally, Muslim women can marry Muslim men. The Qur’an does not provide further guidance on whether Muslim women can marry men “of the Book.”
The Issue
This leads us to the issue at hand – can we assume that the reverse is true for Muslim women marrying Judeo-Christian men?
• If not, can we forbid Muslim women from marrying a Christian or Jewish man?
• If yes, what does that mean in our patriarchal structure?
What People Say: Traditional Thought
Traditionally, the answer has been no, the reverse situation cannot be assumed for Muslim women. The argument is that if men are expressly given permission to marry women of the Book then women must also be given express permission in order to do the same. All major schools of thought accept this ruling. Many provide justifications as to why this traditional view has been upheld. The justification for this view fall primarily along these lines: 1) preservation of the Ummah [Muslim Community], 2) the father establishes religion for his children, 3) loss of certain rights as a Muslim woman, 4) implications on family law.
1) Preservation of the Ummah
Since we live in a patriarchal system there is a need to maintain a certain order under that system. The family lineage is passed through the father so if Muslim women marry outside the Muslim community this would, somehow, impede the growth of the Ummah as a whole.
2) Religion stems from the father
Children are most often recognized by their father’s name, culture, traditions, customs, beliefs, etc. In most customs, a woman marries into a family, not the other way around. In many instances the woman will even move into the husband’s family home. In such scenarios, not only is the father’s beliefs and legacy passed on in a symbolic sense, the father’s family and culture also exert a great influence over the children. This view that religion stems from the father is also used to support the notion that Muslim men may marry a kitabiyya, while Muslim women cannot.
3) Loss of rights
Islam ensures certain rights to women, which in an interfaith marriage cannot be guaranteed because the husband is under no obligation to ensure these rights are protected. This includes, but is not limited to, the right to freely practice her faith, the right to a mehr , the right to keep her name after marriage, the right to retain her earnings, the right to have her husband provide for her and their children, etc. Again, this is not thought to be an issue for Muslim men marrying outside of the faith because, the patriarchal household is accepted as the norm. Thus, as part of his duties, a Muslim husband is expected to provide for his family, uphold the rights of his wife and not prevent her from practicing her faith. He is also prohibited from forcing his wife to be Muslim. The fear, however, is that a non-Muslim husband heading a household would not be obliged to do the same, placing the woman at a disadvantage.
4) Implications on family law
Islamic law provides guidance regarding various topics within family law. This is of particular significance in regards to interfaith marriages as it includes matters of divorce, child custody, and inheritance. A concern for some scholars is that if Muslim women marry outside the faith, not only would they lose their God-given rights, but also, Islamic family law would not be able to address the issues that may arise.
Come On, Really…?
The notion that the Ummah is somehow preserved through the offspring of Muslim men is culturally archaic. The spread of Islam has been through its message, and its growth is maintained through the belief of its followers. A man’s family name, traditions and faith are passed to his children only in a symbolic sense. Their decision to follow or not follow his ways stem from a number of factors, and is ultimately governed by their personal choice. There are further inconsistencies in the reasoning given by those who purport this rule in light of patriarchal tradition. If we maintain that men are the head of households and carry on family legacy, then we also support the notion that women are the primary caretakers and nurturers. Thus, religion and culture are more likely to be passed through the mother. This is especially true of the common nuclear family in America, where the children are solely under the care and supervision of the mother, not the father’s extended family. It simply does not make sense that a practicing Muslim mother would not raise her children as Muslims. It makes even less sense that a non-Muslim mother could be expected to raise her children as Muslim.
The aforementioned justifications speak to an Islamically ideal situation – a marriage between a Muslim man and Muslim woman where both care for and respect each other and live in wedded bliss for the sake of Allah in a Muslim majority country with his upstanding Muslim family. It assumes that by marrying a kitabiyya a Muslim woman is forgoing this wedded bliss. It also assumes that if she marries a Muslim man she will be in an Islamically ideal situation. Both assumptions are just not realistic.
If a Muslim woman finds a practicing man of God who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects with better as well, why should anyone stop her from marrying him? Even if we are to presume that all the single available Muslim men of America are Islamically ideal men and a Muslim woman would be crazy to reject all these potential Muslim suitors – if she chooses to marry a kitabiyya, she does not lose any wifely rights in this country, at least. The beauty of Islam is that it guaranteed a minimum standard for women at a time when there was no standard. We are fortunate enough to live in a society where these basic rights and more are upheld by law.
The concern that a shift in traditional thought will have implications in Islamic law is understandable, but should not be considered a threat to our Islamic traditions. Islamic law is not divine and it is not set in stone. It is a man-made interpretation of divine doctrine and tradition. It is a living body of law and should be treated as such. Implying that the fear of readdressing Islamic family law is enough to forbid all Muslim women from marrying outside the faith is just lazy. A body of law requires constant thought and analysis in order to develop. There are many Islamic scholars who recognize the need for development in Islamic legal theory, and are uncomfortable upholding traditions that are not prescribed in the Qur’an, yet few are willing to voice that opinion. When it comes to the rights of women we need to remember that Islam provided a floor, not a ceiling, and we must be careful of twisting something into haraam that is not expressly prohibited.
Soooo…
Ideally, most of us want and expect to marry a Muslim. It simplifies a lot of complications in our minds regarding marriage and family. But the reality is that in our society we have an increased chance of meeting and marrying a non-Muslim. Huma’s choice may have made the news. But men do it all the time. We accept their decision, as it is their choice, their right. We don’t analyze all the possible outcomes it may or may not have on the future of his children and the Ummah. So why are we prohibiting women from observing the same right when it is not prohibited in the Qur’an? And why are we prohibiting it with outdated justifications?
At most, the traditional justifications provide evidence that marrying kitabiyya is discouraged, not that it is forbidden. The choice is left to the believer.
Renowned scholar Tariq Ramadan said it best. When asked how he would react if one of his children married a non-Muslim, he replied:
“I would naturally prefer someone to share the principles of being a Muslim. But it’s their choice. Look, by then, I will have done what I have had to do [as a father]. I have transmitted my principles to them. So I say to them, know who you are and your values. When you know this, then you are free. “
Allah knows best.
READ THE OPPOSITION’S POST HERE
MAY ALHASSEN’s post can be read here.
I don’t like this blog anymore.
Abdullah
August 24, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Why you don’t like this blog anymore? Because you don’t agree with everything written here? Life is full of things you don’t always agree with. You don’t get to control everything. Life is full of agreeing to disagree. That makes you an adult.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 1:39 am
Because I don’t believe in being so open-minded that your brains fall out.
Abdullah
August 25, 2010 at 12:24 pm
I just found this blog and absolutely adore it!
Shereen
October 19, 2011 at 5:24 am
This a nice read for sure. As a non Muslim, I would honor my wife’s beliefs. I would very much love such a wife.
bauguaman
March 23, 2012 at 8:46 am
Abdullah,
this point of view may be shocking and unusual, but take a moment and see this picture, we are muslimsisters practicing and living in western countries, I personally live in australia all the men we meet are usually professional people we work with and they are non muslim but good christians, we do not get younger and in our archaic society they won’t even consider us i mean the muslim men who may be interested in us to get a residency and a better life but if we are over 35 we are dead to them. so what do you want us to do die bachelor? I have met muslim people who are against even when the man convert with good faith to islam they say “not good enough” so i guess we keep looking for the muslim de souche whose muslim for generations? come on Abdulla we all wish we have met the white sheep but sometimes those are not available so give me a solution for God sake.
a muslim woman living in christian land!
Magda
April 7, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Magda, I think women like us, end up knowing more about our Creator and the reality of His presence. Good luck, I have been in the same situation and ended up marrying someone who used to be a good christian. He’s become muslim after getting to know me and my realistic beliefs. All I know is that be strong in ur faith and be smart. Don’t be foolish by never getting married bc u want to marry a ‘muslim born’ man who may take his faith for granted!
peace
April 16, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Hear! Hear!
Precious star
April 17, 2012 at 2:12 am
Sister Magda
I don’t think it’s a wise idea to marry a non Muslim man just because it seems that he is not a mushrik/polytheist. Consider the following verse from Surah An-Nur
The adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress none marries her except an adulterer or a Muskrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitute, then surely he is either an adulterer, or a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater, etc.) And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater) or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan, or idolatress, etc.)]. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islamic Monotheism).24.3-
Muhsin Khan translations http://quran.com/24
You would probably agree with me that most non Muslim men in the west including Australia (where I live
) commit adultery before marriage. If you meet a Christian man with some monotheistic beliefs then you should get your male relatives to give him dawah and hopefully he will accept Islam.
Musa
April 18, 2012 at 6:35 am
My mother is Christian, my father is Muslim. Im christian, My girlfriend is muslim. I dont see the big deal really? we follow 92% of the same thing. why spend our lives talking about the 8%
Faheem?
April 10, 2012 at 10:17 am
Its like arguing for alcohol; saying that its only prohibited in one place and that as long as you do it in moderate quantities, its acceptable.
There are some things which dont change with time – and in this case are you basing everything on the Quran? did the Holy Prophet sanction any marriage of this nature during this time?
Ray
August 24, 2010 at 3:23 pm
“… and in this case are you basing everything on the Quran?” … ???????????
Its the word of God you moron… every thing IS based on it and it is timeless… and if there is any contradiction between Hadith (word of man) and Quran (word of God) … Quran wins
Omar
August 24, 2010 at 6:00 pm
As far as I know, there is no contradictions between the Quran and hadith. Allah hu Alim.
M.
August 24, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Omar, Why call him names? Should we call you a bad name, too?
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 1:41 am
Thank you!! I have been married arranged and quickly to two muslim men, difft times of course, both have had abusive qualities and I have the wonderful parents, family and friends who helped me out of the situation..now that i’m older, its ridiculous that we make up forbidden rules that are not from the word of Allah, the Quran!! People who claim they know and call this blog stupid are stupid themselves, they dont know the world, they havent gotten close to Allah and his creations..sad if we can’t be better than other people in this world..if someone is judgemental, it makes them a worse muslim than someone who is God loving who may be Christian and Jew because they also believe in the same Allah and chose to believe.
Islam
February 9, 2011 at 1:43 pm
The Holy Prophet was busy marrying a lot of different types of women. He was sanctioning many different types of marriages for himself. So, I’d say that there is permission for many types of marriages.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 2:32 am
First off, with the whole alcohol issue, you’re referring to the abrogated verses. The first few ayahs addressing alcohol have been nullified due to the latter ayahs completely prohibiting alcohol. It’s the whole process of abrogation or mansukh in Arabic. So those that argue for alcohol are completely wrong.
This article has a point because prohibiting women to marry men of the book is something that has not specifically been prohibited in the Qur’an and not addressed in the Sunna. Prohibiting something which is not haram is another type of sin.
And something you should definitely know is that the Qur’an is the authorative and divine source which everything else is ‘based’ on…not whatever you seem to be thinking. The Qur’an is the main and final source of Islam and if anything contradicts it then it should be considered null and void.
Nida
March 24, 2011 at 2:04 am
I have than liver from unknow cause I was not drink alcohol when young. When I get bad cought the doctor write note for alcohol base cought medine not alcohol free cought medine which will do 10 time more harm to my liver than alcohol base one will do. Muslim doctor do the same also when writeing note for medince.
Brian C. Hoff
September 8, 2011 at 1:49 am
Salam Nadia,
Based on my own reading of the Quran the people of the book are Mushrikun/polytheist.
They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God – Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).” 9.31-Mushin Khan translations.
Also verses 5.72-73 seem to describe those who believe in the trinity are practicing shirk/polytheism.
http://quran.com/5
Nadia , I don’t think verse 5.5 describes people of the book as being 100% monotheistic. The verse only states that we can eat their lawful food and marry chaste women. Can you think of other verses which describe the people of the book as not being polytheist?. The only verses I can think of are 2.62 and 5.69 but verse 3.85 states that
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.3.85.
Some scholars say that verses 2.62, 5.69 only apply only applies to people of the book who lived during prophets Musa(as) and Jesus(as) times but Allah(swt) knows best.
My final question is in verse 9.28 Allah(swt) has ordered Muslims to not allow Mushrikuns/polytheist to enter Al Masjid Al Haram/Mecca. So do you think people of the book should be allowed to enter Mecca since you believe that they are not polytheists.
Musa
April 18, 2012 at 6:04 am
I absolutely agree. The notion that your religion and spirituality somehow depends on the other person’s believes and actions, including your husband is utterly unislamic. Besides people of the book like Christians and Jews are NOT polytheists.
Sofia
August 24, 2010 at 3:31 pm
I totally agree with you.
Dania
August 24, 2010 at 4:18 pm
You might not like this, and it probably depends much on upbringing, but most women I know follow the lead of the men in their lives, unconsciously or not. I know lots of women who expect the men to make the decisions and don’t want to be bothered. And guess what; the real conflicts happen when they have to decide how to raise the kids.
OmarG
September 8, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Omar G, you might not like this, but there is not only one type of women. There are actually women that think and try to do the right thing, thinking of God/Allah who they believe in strongly and stand up for justice and their faiths and uphold their faith bc it is strong. Those women who just follow the lead of men are also at risk even with muslim men. Lets use our heads, there are many problems either way. It all depends, and I’m sure that is the most reasonable answer. Best thing to do is ask Allah and pray and try with the tools he gave us. He will come closer to us if we try every step to be closer to Him..and that includes raising children and a nonmuslim in showing them and guiding them the right way.
islam
July 16, 2011 at 6:17 am
It’s very clear that this isn’t an Islamic blog – it’s an anti-Islam attack blog run by a lunatic fringe “progressive Muslim”. Sad.
Abdullah1
August 24, 2010 at 3:31 pm
You miss the point totaly. I convert after 9-11 an I see that Islam needed to change some view. First one of our sister mother marry than america in Indonesia who treated her better than the local men. Her first hushand mistreated her badly when he die the america man convert to Islam to be able to marry her. I think Islam needed to look anew at some of our legal and religious belief. The america hight court at time hear cases on matter that the court decide year ago to see it than change is needed. I than 60 year old than I know less than some muslim childern about Islam, but I know the major points like you cannot breat up your wife. My father who was than christian man use to breat my mother on than regulate basely than at that time the police didnot arrest the man but stop him from further hitting the woman. At one point I was ready to kill my father durning one of his breating up my mother event. I never hit any women because of this.
Brian C. Hoff
August 24, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Wow. Just wow.
Sabir Ibrahim
August 24, 2010 at 7:53 pm
No, Abdullah1,
It’s a conversation where posters and the author state their viewpoint whether or not you agree with it. That is called freedom of expression. All ideas and expressions. You’ve lived in a bubble for too, long.
So, should we call you bad names now and attack you?
Please don’t act like a child just because someone else doesn’t hold your same opinion. Adults aren’t so insecure that they can’t agree to disagree and respect someone else’s opinion.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 1:44 am
Having lived in various Muslim countries for 18 year I have come away with a sad realisation that Islam is a not a success. I think that the absence of personal responsibility by responsibility being suborned to a suposedly superior being saps the very life spark that drives others. Locked into a mindset that prohibits discussion and free thought with the penalty of death is to put it mildly rather limiting to ever moving forward.
Simon Scarth
November 14, 2011 at 3:25 pm
There’s a lot of interfaith marriages between Muslim women and Hindu men in India. I’ve known various Indians from mixed religious families and they turned out fine.
Whether Qur’an forbids it or not, I ain’t letting anyone deny me the right to marry a Jewish, Hindu, Christian or atheist man if I want to. if Allah looks down at me for marrying a man of a different faith because this man loves and respects me, then that’s not the Allah I want to worship.
Jihad Punk 77
August 24, 2010 at 4:20 pm
yeah girl, i second all that.
Sarita
August 30, 2010 at 11:58 pm
This the best comment ever. My girlfriend is muslim but does not practice it. Her dad is married to another woman and he says he wont allow me to marry this girl that i have been dating for four years. There is no reason for me to doubt her love for me.
Why should someone who is 69 years deny me my future happiness. I will never convert and if my girl wont marry me because of that, then i guess were just not meant to be.
Does it mean on Judgement day, God will choose one religion he sees right?
james
May 5, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Jame It better to change your religion to Islam to marry your muslim girl. I know muslim that donot goto the mosque expect on certain month and days.
Brian C. Hoff
May 6, 2011 at 1:46 am
@Jihad Punk 77… Asthagfurullah! That is really shameless, ignorant, and disgusting comment.
Islam is NOT what you want it to be, Islam is the religion that God has blessed humanity with.
Islam has clearly forbidden a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim man. God knows what is best for us and God has made it clear that marrying a Muslim woman is to marry a Muslim man.
Islam is about submitting yourself to Almighty Allah (SWT) who knows more than anyone or anything else.
God is beyond all physical and material things, and Muslims MUST obey the commandments of God!
Your comment is extremely disgusting. You should change your thinking.
Give up your material obsession and recognize that God has made truth clear.
The Quran MUST be understood through the holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) who himself IS the Quran and lived the best life ever!
Ali
October 17, 2011 at 12:16 pm
Um, Ali, I’m sorry, but from an atheist’s point of view (i.e., my view), you’re simply wrong. But you know what, I’ll let you love and live and learn they way you wish while you remain under your (delusion) view. Now, as for a women who identifies as Muslim, I also will allow her to live and love and learn in the way she wants to, which is to do so in the arms of her atheist lover. And the reason she believes this way is because he, at least, expresses and manifests and embodies that god-quality she seeks – absolute love and respect for her and for life and for others; something she has a hard time finding in certain people who call themselves Muslim.
J. Alexander Lloyd
October 24, 2011 at 11:52 pm
Ok Ali,
You told us what the Koran and “god” have to say about Moslim women marrying non Muslim man.
( we knew that already)
But unfortunately “god” or “allah” simply doesn’ exist.These are human phantasies just as “appollo” “woodan” “amon re” or “ctulhu”.
I should like to know what you personnaly as an intellectual being think about this question.
Think for yourself! do not think secondhand, do no rely on others.
JJ.Rousseau
October 25, 2011 at 12:06 pm
It is not forbidden to marry nonmuslim men. You cannot find that in the Quran. It says men should not marry non believing women (idolators) and women should not marry nonbelievers because its better for them. Its true if someone doesnt believe in one God, the creator of all of us, we can sin and fall to be deceived. But the message from beginning of time has always been the same. If you say any nonmuslim is also a nonbeliever, you are definitely wrong and I actually feel sorry that your intellect hasnt been used as God has given to others. You have to read the quran in depth and the history behind why what happened. (For James) As far as JJ Rousseau, you should try reading the Quran and history and see how it would ever make sense for a man to know about the two rivers, one sweet and one salty that dont mix..or other examples in the Quran that is impossible for him to know and have that much knowledge. See if it makes sense that there is no human way possible for him to have known about the prophets that were revealed before his time and in aramaic or hebrew and not in arabic..and in the days where technology was not advanced..then u would be shocked and really accept that must be some sort of miracle or impossible. May you use your wisdom and brain as well to realize there is a power greater than you, that can save you at the times you will wish He did. May God bless you with the well rounded love and spirit in your life! As for those who think that its still haram, sorry to say I’ve just witnessed a couple of miracles and am now more stronger in faith than ever that its not haram as long as people believe and don’t associate other things or gods with One God and those that strive to be in God’s way, He is always with His creations..whether you believe it or not.
islam
October 25, 2011 at 1:15 pm
I would just like to say one thing…GOD is all about love and God made this entire universe and then he made humans….now are you trying to say all the muslims are goin to heaven….HUH…Im a christian..but my father is a muslim…And let me tell you..I say ISLAM is a JAIL…where once some one accepts it..their is no way out even if you want to…you are forced to believe or do what ever you dont want to…and im a CHRISTIAN…where you can only be a christian if you BELIEVE…we dont kill in the name of our GOD…for Kafir(sinners) God has made hell…so other then changing the whole meaning of GOD and doing what he has planned for the “so called kafir(sinners)” as you put it.as usual deciding for God…why dont yall shut your disgusing mouths and stop using tht horrible brains to find horrible ways to kill innocent ppl just to remove your frustrations….Im sorry to say…Islam mite be a religion but the muslims are nothing but murderers /vultures/horrible torturers and the famouse word…TERRORISTS….Youll can marry 4 times …why?? women are animals in ISLAM?? they have no respect?? …everyone has their human rights…GOD IS LOVE and if you fall in love with another human being regardless of their religion…God is present their….Everyone believes in GOD/ALLAH …..so just becoz one who does not believe in th prophets…God will hate them?? I say just look up the sky and pray to GOD…itz all about him..GOD almighty…last bust not the least…being a good human being in this generation is big thing it self…
jazmine
December 30, 2011 at 3:01 am
exactly! i have been married to two muslim men through famliy and had my life ruined! never again. now i am with a man who dont hve no religion but strongly believes in god, and loves and respects me. thats most important to me. i have asked allah to lead me in d right path and only he nos what will happen. all i no is that i love this guy and my allah will guide me! i will not force myself to be unhappy. i believe everything happens for a reason and sumtimes u cant explain the reason but in time u will.
jade
March 18, 2012 at 3:26 am
Dear Fakie Jihad Punk,
You are spreading lies. Its HIndu women who marry Muslims men but not the others.
Exception may happen but see the list. Bollywood stars, cricketers Muslims men from Amir Khan, Shaharukh Khan, Arbaz Khan, Sohail Khan, Irfan pathan, Azharuddin, Saif Ali khan all these Muslim men married Hindu women. When 100 Hindu women marry Muslim men, u will find 0.000001% Muslim woman marrying HIndu men. So, ur title also shows that u are an RSS terrorist group, a Muslim/Christian minority hater. You are lier. I am Indian too. In between I personally dont support any of these so called Muslim men to marry Hindu women.
Azad Ali Shah
November 30, 2011 at 12:26 am
What I have observed, from an empirical standpoint, in the United States, is that often the children will follow the religion of the mother.
Reshma
August 24, 2010 at 4:51 pm
Wajahat Ali here. This is simply a debate topic. Goatmilk doesn’t endorse one side over the other. This is not an “Islamic blog” or “anti-Islamic blog” or “Progressive Blog” or “Conservative blog.” So, perhaps people can simply relax and read debaters tackling a complex topic, yes? Yes…
Wajahat Ali
August 24, 2010 at 4:52 pm
This blog is virulently anti-Islamic. It promotes even-handed debate about pertinent issues for Muslims. Shame on you.
Taufiq Rahim
August 24, 2010 at 5:36 pm
hahahhah. i know right. how dare we engage in healthy discussion and promote the kind of literacy required to understand the complex social issues of our time?
Dina
August 24, 2010 at 10:15 pm
I’m wondering what the next Goatmilk Debate will be?
“Muslims should add more bacon to their diet” or “Which wine goes best with falafel: red or white?”
abdul-halim
August 25, 2010 at 3:25 am
Seriously! How dare we have opinions and *not* follow things blindly. Astafighrullah.
MahaMuslimah
April 26, 2011 at 6:16 pm
so agreed with MahaMuslimah…what is the difference of following blindly something you are taught as a muslim and those we criticize for blindly following something? ridiculous. I believe its more impt to use our God given brains and hearts to realize we dont have answers and anything anyone does with God in their mind and heart and right intentions is not for anyone to question. Thats called being a believer.
Islam
April 27, 2011 at 2:41 pm
I do think you are wrong. Any questioning of the Koran or Islam is seen as being anti islamic, it is the standard defence. There is the Koran and that is it, I am assured that the Koran states that the world is 6,000 years old, no discussion nor debate. The Christians had a similar problem a few hundred years ago but non belief or questioning does not carry the death penalty.
Simon Scarth
November 14, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@ SIMON, actually, you are very wrong about the questioning of Islam and the “killing” in Islam. Allah himself TELLS us to question not only Islam, but all religions and beliefs around us. He tells us this because he knows that…
a) We will not find anything better than Islam (if we conduct our search correctly – which you clearly have not.) and,
b) We must be knowlegable of everything in our lives, even if its not our own religion. And,
c) Because of issues exactly like this one. How are we supposed to know the truth if we’ve been told our whole lives something that is false?! Am I supposed to abandon my love for a christian man because I never took the initiative of searching for my real rights?
And also, there is NO ruling whatsoever for a death penalty for questioning things! That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard. Please, please do your research before assuming things and putting out false and offensive comment.
Yasmine
January 7, 2012 at 12:36 am
Ah, secular thinking seeps deep.
It might not be scientific but of all the families I know where the father is a non muslim and did not convert, the children in that family are usually outside of the fold of Islam and more prone to atheism.
The case is not so when the father is Muslim and the woman is not; its just the way it is – Nadia/Waj can “refudiate” all traditional way of thinking they want but these are just facts.
In his response to the question raised here, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Muhammad Al-Hanooti, member of the North American Fiqh Council, states:
“If Allah is the one who prohibits a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim, then we as Muslims are supposed to believe it and to take it. As a matter of faith, you cannot become a Muslim unless you accept everything when it is ordained by Allah or carried out by his Messenger. The Qur’an says, “O Ye who believe! Put not yourselves forward before Allah and His Messenger…” (Al-Hujurat: )
If you ask about the benefits of not marrying a non-Muslim, we can count you many reasons. A man is the manager of his household. He will persecute his Muslim wife in many dos and don’ts. She can hardly guarantee that kind of operation. Moreover, marriage is an institution for elevating our levels of having a good Islamic life. Pleasing Allah is our number one goal. If a woman is married to a non-Muslim, maybe the only thing she will accomplish in her marital life is what is good for livestock.”
Shedding more light on the question, I’d like to cite the words of the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheik Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, in his well-known book, The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam:
“It is haram for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man, regardless of whether he is of the People of the Book or not. We have already mentioned the saying of Allah, “…and do not marry (your girls) to idolaters until they believe…” (Al-Baqarah: 221)
Ehab
August 24, 2010 at 4:56 pm
“Persecute his wife”??? That makes me real excited to get married. How about love her?
How about the children choose what religion they want to be after learning about different religions. Not be made to be something whether they want to or not, under the threat of punishment or banishment. Where’s the love?
If you are made to be something you don’t want, then you will never really be it. You may fake the motions, but in your heart you aren’t really there.
What about what the women wants for her marriage? Doesn’t she get to be happy and not just have to endure?
Too many men making all the decisions and not walking the walk.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 1:51 am
omg dats so true.i am a muslim lady who had two arranged marriages with muslim men wich has made me suffer for a ling time. now i am going to marry a non muslim man who dont hve a religion bt strongly believes in god! and dats most important for me. dat i have sum1 who respect me repsects my religion and loves me.and i hve never been happier!!! how many muslim guys do u see doing that.
jade
February 27, 2012 at 12:27 am
Great post.
Except your excerpts and references are taken from the word of a man.
I believe the relevant passages regarding marriage cited during this discourse were primarily the word of Allah.
I hate to be a stickler here, but I’m inclined to think that Allah is going to have to be given precedence.
Moreover, most of the uneducated comments in here come from those that are either quoting others who INTERPRET the Quran or interpreting it themselves.
As long as a topic is left ambiguous, especially when left ambiguous by Allah himself, I’m seriously not going to take an affirmative position, especially an “absolute NO” position, largely because that’s not a justification I want to explain to Allah when it comes time for my reckoning. Seriously, what’s your response going to be? “Ah, well, this guy said it in his book/speech/khutba and I figured he’s a smart guy so I should just follow along.”
Draw the distinction between law and ideas; do not create/invent/interpret laws that weren’t expressly prescribed by Allah. Remember, you are judged for your own actions and words, and you probably don’t want to explain to our Maker why you suddenly thought you could edit Him.
Well unless you do. Then by all means, push forward brave one. Again, I’m not going to get flack for it later…
RSHaq
August 25, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Great post! I totally agree! Why are people stating that it is strictly forbidden when it wasn’t? Absence of express permission does not mean it’s forbidden!
Who has absolutely forbidden Muslim women from marrying Christian or Jewish men, Muslim men of course, not Allah or his prophet!
AK
September 15, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Amazing,
I have lived most of my life in western countries and i do not know so many families with the father non muslim and the woman is muslim in fact i dont know any, so how did you get to such huge conclusion? how many families you know in this situation? what i know is a lot of muslim men married to non muslim women and living like they have nothing to do with religion or have the minimum, you know why, because we women we rule the house and when the husband is gone all day to work the women is not gonna say oh let me be honest and teach my son his father;s religion no if she doesnt push her own then he is lucky. so stop using this ugly word HARAM which brought us to so many crimes.
When I’m put in my grave I go there alone and not you Ehab or anybody else will go with me so can I have the right to decide what way to take; knowing fully anything i do i will have to answer for it tomorrow when i get to meet my Creator? i do not need a man to tell me what way to go then leave me hanging the day i have to answer Nekir? so give me a break and you guys take care of your families and ensure you’re the MAN and not that blond you grab at the fisrt bar when you land in western WORLD and get to be so proud of.
God show all the right way!
Magda
April 7, 2012 at 2:21 pm
“And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you.”
I think your interpretation is off. Polytheistic people believe in more than one God. For example, Hindus are polytheistic whereas Jewish, Christians and Muslims believe in one God – having a monotheistic belief system.
Therefore, I take this to mean “Do not marry someone who worships more than ONE God unless they come to believe that there is ONE God.” Thus, conforming to a basic belief in Islam – Tawheed, which refers to the divine uniqueness and oneness of Allah. There is no other God worthy of worship but Allah.
To become Muslim, you must pronounce with conviction:
Ash-hadu an la ilaha ill Allah, Ash-hadu an la ilaha ill Allah.
(English: I bear witness that there is no diety but Allah; And I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah)
Again, reiterating you must believe in one God, not multiple.
I am a former Christian who is married to a Muslim man and in the process of converting to Islam. Not once has anyone in the Muslim community looked down on our marriage – most of the time people have issue with the cultural differences – I have always been accepted by my husband’s family and other Muslims.
Amber Khan
August 24, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Mohammed was referring to the pagan worshipers in his area who still worshiped the 360 gods in Arabia. He used to be a polytheist, too, and worship all the gods, including Allah at the Kabbah before he eliminated the other 359 gods. It’s still debateful if he allowed the worship of Allah’s two daughters though some say he allowed it.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 1:56 am
What evidence do you have that Muhammad was a polythiest who worshipped 360 Gods? There is nowhere in the quran where God says to Muhammad that he was a polythiest who worshipped 360 Gods.
“He used to be a polytheist, too, and worship all the gods, including Allah at the Kabbah before he eliminated the other 359 gods”
Do you realize that “Allah” is the arabic word for God?
“It’s still debateful if he allowed the worship of Allah’s two daughters though some say he allowed it.” This has NEVER been a question of debate. Muhammad was a monothiest. The entire quran is monothiestic.
JP
August 25, 2010 at 3:45 am
@amazonbaby, No! you are a disgusting LIAR and a DECEIVER.
The holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) ALWAYS believed in ONE Almighty God! There is no God but Allah (SWT) and the holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is the GREATEST Slave and Messenger of Allah (SWT)!
The holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) ONLY worshiped Allah (SWT) and believed in ONE God!
Allah (SWT) is the one Almighty, Supreme, Omnipotent, and PERFECT God! God is the greatest!
The holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is the beloved of Allah (SWT) and was ALWAYS a monotheist who believed in one God!
Allah (SWT) has NO partners or equals. Allah (SWT) has NO children! Allah (SWT) has NO daughters, NO sons, and NO family!
Allah (SWT) is beyond all material and physical things.
Ali
October 17, 2011 at 12:11 pm
“Allah’s Two Daughter ????????” , “He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.” Surah Ikhlas (Holy Qur’an 112:1-4).
This is one of the most fundamental tenants of ISLAM.
Hasan
November 17, 2011 at 7:04 am
Why are we even having this conversation?????? This is why it makes it so hard to stand up for a religion that has this kind of demented interpretations, which is unfortunate because I don’t think the religion was instituted with this kind of thinking. And, yeah, I am a practicing Catholic married to a MUslim. Guess what, my husband and the kids are rational, practicing Muslims.
Grace
August 24, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Marriage b/w a Muslim man and Catholic woman is permitted but not the other way around.
A
August 24, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Duhhhhhhhhhhh, you just got that about this article.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 1:57 am
u no what dats crap who ever u are!!! u only think men r important cus adam came first bt u forgetting widout eve u wudnt be there.we all have equal rights. not jus men. get overselves n get a life. muslim men think they can change d culture wenever they want bt they forgetting d true word of allah n d quran and our beloved prophet muhammed peace be apon him. because they are d biggest hypercrite ever!!!
jade
March 30, 2012 at 10:54 pm
If we don’t discuss this the community will not evolve. If there is truth we must continually strive to find it. I’m not of the irrational type that has a problem with this but it’s good to discuss so that other people can learn from our viewpoints or maybe we can all come to some conclusions together.
And you’re absolutely right. There is no shortage of demented interpretations….which is why it’s nice to talk about these things and get rid of the false interpretations
JP
August 25, 2010 at 3:51 am
Islam doesnot support wife breating reread the part of the Koran dealing with it.
Brian C. Hoff
August 24, 2010 at 5:45 pm
frankly, i don’t see the textual argument in support of this.
FP
August 24, 2010 at 5:57 pm
In terms of wife-beating it should be easy to find Muslim sites which explain the issue properly and mention hadith from the prophet (saaws) such as:
The Prophet said: “Do not hit the maidservants of Allah!” (la tadribu ima’ Allah).
As far as the original question goes, let me be a bit round-about…
Some anti-Islamic missionaries mention the verse “Do not take Christians and Jews as friends [wali]” in order to cast Muslims in a bad light.
(Siraj Wahhaj has a good explanation of this issue)
But of course we know that the word translated as “friends” doesn’t just mean “pal” or “person you are nice to”. And one of the most obvious counter-arguments is the fact that Muslim men are allowed to marry Jewish and Christian women. It would be silly to argue that Muslims aren’t allowed to be “buddies” with People of the Book if the Quran gives (qualified) permission to live with them intimately and raise children with them in the context of a family.
So what *does* that verse mean? Well, the word “wali” is more like protector or ally. So Muslims aren’t prohibited from being friendly with people of the book but ARE prohibited from putting themselves in a vulnerable position where they depend on them for protection.
What does this have to do with the current topic? Well, allahu alim but one could definitely argue that the husband IS supposed to be that kind of “wali” or protector for his wife.
abdul-halim
August 24, 2010 at 6:59 pm
“And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you.” [Qur’an 2:221]
The ayah is very clear unless you want to provide an alternate translation. Your support or lack thereof of the argument is unclear. What do you want to say?? You are one of those people who have a hard time saying that its ok for a Muslim woman to marry a Jewish or Christian man. Brother its ok… relax ..
Omar
August 24, 2010 at 9:09 pm
That’s really confusing then because quite a few Islamic countries paid billions for a Christian country (ies) to protect them whilst in a vulnerable position. Guess business doesn’t apply here, only love or friendship?
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 2:00 am
Islam definitely is NOT defined by whatever “Muslim countries” do.
abdul-halim
August 25, 2010 at 2:56 am
MY FRIEND YOU LIKE TO SEE THE ISLAM WELL YOU NEED TO STUDY IT.WITH FULL PEACE OF HEART.STUDY IT THEN THERE IS NO NEED OF ARGUMENT..DEBATE LIKE THIS WITH HALF KNOWLEDGE.THATS
WASTE OF TIME.
SYED SAJID HUSSAIN
August 25, 2010 at 8:02 am
awesome. looking forward to may’s response!
Fatima
August 24, 2010 at 7:13 pm
[...] Ali at GoatMilk started a debate whether “Muslim women should be able to marry non-Muslim men” and the post drew a lot of [...]
Global Voices in English » Pakistan: Muslim Women And Non-Muslim Men
August 24, 2010 at 9:09 pm
This is not an Islamic blog. The person who wrote this should be ashamed of writing this in Ramadan, of all holy months (on the rare chance this person actually is Muslim).
Why don’t you join a Kabbalah instead of spreading your lies and deviousness
Saad Mohammed
August 24, 2010 at 10:03 pm
reading some comments (like the above) just goes to show the mental regression in our muslim community, exactly like that present in islamophobes/anti-muslim folks who respond illogically and incoherently on CNN.com or articles about islam.
unfortunately, muslims are not immune to the plaque of idiocy.
Dina
August 24, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Horrors of horrors that we should have an independent thought regardless of when it is expressed.
All you can come up with is name calling and insults.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 2:02 am
thanks for creating the space for dialogue, wajahat!
one point was not addressed fully: all matters are considered permissible/halal until they are proven to be impermissible/haram. there is not enough textual or contextual evidence to support forbidding muslims from marrying non-muslims.
and it’s shocking to me that the allowance is not threatened for men, but it is for women.
one last thing i also wanted to mention. though i do not believe it is forbidden for women to marry nonmuslim men, from a sociological standpoint i DO believe it is a legitimate argument that much is passed on from the mother and that marrying a non-muslim (for the man or woman) might provide some difficulty. i dont mean faith is passed on, but religion (behaviors that allow for faith to flourish) and values and a sense of direction and guidance on cultural habits and priorities.
the profound effect of a mother on her child should be taken into consideration and discussed among the two deciding to get married, but not used as evidence for PROHIBITING such a marriage.
Dina
August 24, 2010 at 10:23 pm
I’ve found that when a Muslim man marries a non Muslim women, while there is love involved, the man usually is looking for a backdoor escape and he is not real happy about having to live full time in an Islamic environment. Having the ability to move away legally is attractive. Also, these men tend to be more open minded and secure about the input of different ideas being introduced to their children. They want fresh input. They also want to be able to move away, too, if they feel the need. I gained this knowledge after many discussions with different friend’s husbands. If a man marries outside of his religion/culture, then before he married, he was looking for something different then what he was born into. And, he isn’t so concerned with his children being submerged in the same environment he grew up in. Not my ideas…….what I was told.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 2:57 am
I agree with you wholeheartedly Dina. If it isn’t expressly forbidden in the quran than it isn’t haraam. Unfortunately we muslims are not given the ample opportunity to learn the arabic text to investigate for ourselves what the true meanings of the quran are. We should all do our best to dissolve ourselves of these bad translations/interpretations that are loaded with the interpretors beliefs….
JP
August 25, 2010 at 3:54 am
“We Muslims are not given the ample opportunity to learn the arabic text. . . ”
???
Allah has given you the gift of time. It’s up to you to decide what to do with it. TAKE the time to learn Arabic.
Nia
June 9, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Interesting debate. Even Jews argue that marrying non Jews has caused their “disappearance” in the US. It’s probably sad & true that some non Muslim men give Muslim women the respect they deserve and are more successful, come from more money than Muslim men in the US but the grass is not always greener on the other side. Non Muslim men have their own issues. I think the cultural, religious, core values difference between a non Muslim man and Muslim woman would lead to a divorce or would just not work out in the end. The Muslim community is not prepared for interfaith marriage between a muslim woman and non muslim man and no counseling exists for this partnership. Also, how would you raise your children in an interfaith marriage?
Afshan
August 24, 2010 at 10:39 pm
The children are raised the same way children have been raised successfully in an interfaith marriage around the world for thousands of years. Do you exist in a bubble? Of course there is counseling for this. Just not in your bubble. Why would this marriage end in a divorce? Any non Muslim man who takes on the “work” it takes to gain approval to marry a Muslim woman, is sensitive enough to make sure that the children are given all information needed about both cultures and religions. It’s just that in your bubble, you haven’t ventured out far enough to witness the success.
I don’t think you really have enough basis to know exactly whether or not a non muslim man really has that much of a difference.
The muslim community is ready for non muslim men/muslim women marriages. You aren’t ready for it because not being in total control scares you to death.
And, you make far too many assumptions about men you don’t know anything about. You are assuming that they operate like you. Controlling. So, you are assuming that they will raise their children in the same controlling method that you do except it will be in a Christian, Jewish or whatever different religion.
Again, any non muslim man who wants to marry a muslim man is a very open minded, sensitive minded and respectful person to other cultures and ideas. Just to get the permission and WANT to go through all the hassles it takes to marry a muslim women tells you that you have the best non muslim man there is to marry.
Don’t assume that all non muslim men operate like you do.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 2:12 am
All people operate the same way on some level. If you have any experience with Muslims then you should know that the whole family and community is involved in the marriage for life. Open minded people are always changing their minds. It’s important to share core values from the start so it doesn’t lead to confusion in the future.
Afshan
September 2, 2010 at 1:30 am
A man who doesn’t want to have a say in how his children are raised and leaves it all the mother is a poor excuse of a father, and not much of a man in the first place, in my book.
OmarG
September 8, 2010 at 8:37 pm
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=31&tid=40596
(ayah 6)
If you are a Muslim and believe in the Quran, than please understand the risk you are taking when you say something about Islam.
This goes for EVERYONE. Just because one of us thinks we know what Islam has to say about an issue (even if its a pretty simple issue like drinking or marrying non muslims). VERY FEW of us have the authority to comment on such things with our own words. Post a hadith or a reliable scholar’s commentary on a hadith if you have something to say.
If you are a non muslim looking to understand what Islam says, there are plenty of scholars and smart people (NONE of whom would waste their times on such uselessness as this website) who may be able to explain the wisdom behind certain things.
M.
August 24, 2010 at 11:04 pm
I agree 110%. None of us have the authority or education to discuss this from an Islamic point of view.
Afshan
August 24, 2010 at 11:16 pm
since when did it become a sin to critically think and analyze? the great thinkers of the 9th and 10th centuries, many of whom some wrongly cite as the only credible scholars in our discussions today, didn’t become a thinking people by feeling unworthy to approach the issues of their time. in fact, being born should make you grateful enough at the chance to experience Divinity, in effect showing your gratitude by putting effort, thought, heart, and true intention in searching for answers to our complex social problems. agonizing in seeking God’s acceptance instead of dismissing everything as a challenge too great.
so long as you and i have a heart beat, our brains should be working, too
Dina
August 25, 2010 at 5:24 am
There are only a few reasons why you want to stop muslim women from marrying non muslim men.
1. Marrying outside of the family, tribe, cultures, etc… means control of the money and control over family members is lost.
2. Any cultural advantages of keeping the marriage partner’s faiths the same is lost.
3. If you are worried about honor, it’s must more difficult to control your honor if the muslim woman family member is living outside of the family’s control.
4. You can’t control the input and type of knowledge and ideas that this type of marriage brings into the family.
5. You can’t use only your culture’s type of control on the non-muslim members family to control their actions or gain their cooperation.
6. Since the non muslim husband usually operates in a different legal system or set of rules, you can’t shame or bully him into doing what you want. You can try to bully the muslim wife, but she has the support of her non muslim husband and his family.
7. The fear that the non muslim husband will move the muslim wife far away from the Muslim family and you won’t see your grandchildren or have control or influence over them.
Anyone else have something to add?
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 2:24 am
I think the main “reason” why the marriage laws in Islam are what they are is because that’s what the texts say. And in fact, the laws are pretty typical among Abrahamic religions. Orthodox Judaism doesn’t allow marriage with non-Jews at all because that’s what the Penteteuch says.
Catholic/Orthodox Christians technically don’t allow intermarriage either and the same goes with many PRotestant groups because that’s what the New Testament says: “Don’t be yoked together with unbelievers”.
Islam is the most liberal in that there is qualified permission given for male Muslim to marry females from the people of the book under certain conditions but that’s the exception.
(And some scholars even argue that Jews and Christians today aren’t likely to be the kind referred to by the Quran and that men, especially those living in the West should only marry Muslim women anyway)
So if Islamic rules are something to be taken seriously in terms of guiding your behavior, then that should be enough. If that’s not the case, then as a free citizen in an open and democratic society you can choose to take other things as more important but that doesn’t change the rules.
abdul-halim
August 25, 2010 at 3:15 am
Well actually, a really good reason is because it atrophies a person’s spiritual progress. Yes, indeed, I truly beleive that despite all our faults, moving towards Christianity and Judaism is going backwards spiritually. So, in my mind, the Muslim male or female who does not care about progressing spiritually will be the one who chooses a non-Muslim as their mate, thier most intimate partner.
I don’t give a damn about a family’s control, because God is above family. Some people recognize that, some people do not.
OmarG
September 8, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Hey M. Guess what?! The gig is up! We don’t CARE what the mullahs have to say anymore. We’ve had enough of their garbage. We’re taking Islam back to the people!!! It doesn’t belong to you or your “elite” educated clergy. It belongs to everyone, especially the truly educated who don’t need some out-of-touch moron to interpret quran for him/her.
JP
August 27, 2010 at 3:26 am
Yup. JP is correct. Screw the Mullahs. They have told us ridiculous things for centuries like “husbands can beat their wives”. We know that the word in the Qur’an doesn’t mean only “beat”. It also means “go away from”, which is what the Prophet did. The point of Islam is that we do NOT have to go through anyone to practice our religion. Remember that part?
Khadija
September 1, 2010 at 1:14 am
nice one JP. Mashaalah to a great comment, that lightened up my evening
liberalsistah
September 15, 2011 at 1:48 am
Right on JP!
Aaron
November 29, 2011 at 10:39 pm
dude~Allah put Islam to make things easy~Islam is for all the humans and it should be easy to understand~it said very clear on Quran that muslims should just marry with muslims~so easy~so dont try to make every one scolar here~Allah is not only talking to scolars in the world~it make me sick to think a muslim girl get married with nonmuslim guy~let alone alcohol or some small things here~marrieg is for a person’s whole life~it is a one of biggiest life dicision~it is a serious choice to do~if someone is joking about this i can say this is absolutely not normal!no need to debate~Haram is haram~that’s it!
turkic muslim:)
February 8, 2012 at 7:29 pm
Non muslim men dont all drink or do things that are wrong. Actually I know of nonmuslim men who are better muslims in ideology and practice than born muslims. Dont judge, only God is the judge.
islam4life
February 9, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Great stuff Wajahat. Your blog makes us think.
We ought not be so insular, and should broaden our perspective. What I mean here is:
“According to halakha, a child is not Jewish if the child’s mother is not Jewish” source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F
Hyder
August 24, 2010 at 11:16 pm
I think the biggest fear is that if given a choice, the children may choose a different religion from their own choice. New ideas and information is scary when you can’t control the flow of information.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 2:27 am
One final thought. Christians have been marrying outside of their faith for centuries. Christianity hasn’t disappeared or changed. So, why would you be afraid that Islam would disappear with mixed marriages? All these same arguments have been given over the centuries and disproved. Is Islam so fragile that it has to be kept in a box? Is someone wants to be a Muslim, then nothing can keep them from it. So, let’s test that theory and let children choose. Along with letting Muslim women choose who they will marry.
I really think the different cultural norms are what is really getting in the way.
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 2:38 am
Again, the standard rule in traditional Christianity (Catholic/Orthodox) is that marrying non-Christians is actually wrong. And the same is true for many PRotestant groups. In terms of the three main Abrahamic religions, Islam is actually the most liberal. Now… in modern times especially in the West, Jews and Christians have become more and more liberal about their faith but I’m not sure that Muslims should go the same route.
abdul-halim
August 25, 2010 at 3:20 am
“Islam is actually the most liberal.” Abdul-Halim
This is laughable. Of course Islam is the most liberal – to you. Just as Islam is the most illiberal monstrosity – to me – sine I’m so liberal it’s not funny. (“MMM, this vanilla ice cream is SO delicious.” “But I like chocolate.” “Vanilla ice cream is the most delicious!” “Um, okay, yeah, whatever.”) Liberal is relative, and place names like “Christianity” Judiasm” ‘Islam” only work to obscure the rich, diverse, and deep differences that exist among real-life, living, human beings. Such obfuscation – the use of quick-ticket, monolithic concepts – is used to build straw-men arguments.
As for Muslims going that route – oh, they’re going there. Believe me. And it’s about time, because it actually makes them human again. Not rote memory machines, oppressed by others (read: fanatics, and typically, men), who have little creative spark to see how their religion can actually provide meaning in some way for their lives.
In Jesus Christ Superstar, the question the dead Judas challenges us with is, “Why’d you [Jesus] choose such a backward time in such a strange land? If you’d come today you could have reached a whole nation. Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication. Don’t you get me wrong. I only want to know.” The same could be said about Mohammed. God’s eternal message of rules provided for all eternity in 600s CE to a backwater trader? Um, God couldn’t wait until we were all just a bit more rational and tolerant to come to us and let us all know at once the truth.
J. Alexander Lloyd
October 25, 2011 at 12:19 am
Allah pick whoever He want as messager to mankind or to than group of people. That the Last Messager of Allah was underable to read isnot inportant since less than 1% of the world population of that time did know how to read.It help to show that Allah wrote the Koran not man since the Last Messager of Allah didnot know how to write how could he be the auther of the Koran. No human being since over 1400 year ago wrote than book to equall the Koran an it impact on history and societry.
Brian C. Hoff
October 25, 2011 at 2:33 am
funny really muslim man marrys a muslim women so what is ur point
muslim is not a label that u can play with
i might as well throw the quran on the floor then
as our scripture says there are those who say they are belivers by mouth but not heart
why should we change
do muslim men marry out side islam no
i am a man i know for a fact i will marry muslim women
so i will not be Contracting my self in my prays
s
December 21, 2011 at 12:31 am
Contemporary jurists/ scholars like Imam Khaleel Mohammad, Hasan Turabi, Khaled Abou Fadel express that there is no islamic injunction against a Muslim woman marrying a non-muslim (or people of the book) males.
Tensil Toes
August 25, 2010 at 4:01 am
Tensil,
Islam is based on what was revealed from the Quran and Sunnah and not what the scholars say.
So to say some fringe scholar said so and so is a moot point.
Mahdi Ahmad
August 25, 2010 at 2:58 pm
First and foremost, we should review the evidence that is put forth, for we as Muslims are seeking the Truth and followers of that which is True.
Dr. Abou el Fadl is a self-ascribed follower of (neo) mu’tazilah ideas, and as such one should understand his position with regards to that. For the purpose of brevity, let us summarize that mu’tazilah belief includes putting human reason on a higher position than tradition.
Thus, when we from the majority Sunni school write that there are 1400 years of ‘ijma (scholarly consensus) upon this issue – to the Mu’tazilah it does not matter as such because tradition is secondary to human reason.
However, we need to recognize the weakness of this position, because as Muslims we must place revelation (Qur’an and Sunnah) before reason – however this does not reject the use of reason, it simply deems that when revelation makes an issue clear, there is no longer a need to debate. For example, fasting in Ramadan is clearly commanded – therefore we need not debate its validity based upon human reason.
Obviously the response will be covered by our sister with time to come so I will not delve into a long-winded response to the issue here.
However, I’d like to only mention that when we are engaging in discussions such as this we, as Muslims seeking the truth, really need to evaluate our knowledge and sources of knowledge.
For my brothers and sisters who are upset with the idea of this topic; do not be. Our scholars looked at every issue from bottom to top and thus there is no reason to forget this tradition now.
However, I remind myself and those who read not to simple state that such and such a position is “archaic” or “out-dated.” Why? Because this is an insult and attack upon our scholars, scholars who we love and respect. We as Muslims much have better manners in dealing with such issues. Since there is a vast vast majority of agreement for the last 1400 years in the scholarly tradition upon this issue, I do feel it unfair and incorrect to say: “Come on… Really?” To do so is an insult to 1400 years of scholars and scholarship who have consistently held the other opinion – from the companions until today, it continues to be the majority position. I am not stating one can not ask, however one must ask and question with the manner of a Muslim – with respect, knowledge and dignity.
And, Allah knows best.
Abdullah
August 25, 2010 at 4:43 am
Another note for consideration, which was not mentioned: All four schools of thoughts are in agreement on this issue, that is it not permissible. That does not mean we should not ask this question, but does mean we should at least consider the evidence given by these scholars and schools of thought when engaging in such a discussion. And, Allah knows best.
Abdullah
August 25, 2010 at 4:58 am
In Dr. Abou el Fadl’s original ruling (http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/oninma.html) he does not provide evidence from the Qur’an or Sunnah regarding his position, he simply says that the evidence seems weak. Also note, that Dr. Abou el Fadl says that it is disliked (makruh). Thus we must have the full and proper context: even Dr. Abou el Fadl is not ruling it to be mubah (neutral), rather he is stating that it is “acting against the weight of the consensus” and that even his own ijtihad it is disliked to do so.
We must also be fair when presenting Dr. Fadl’s position.
Anon
August 25, 2010 at 5:05 am
Referring to isolated scholars is like the internet, for every opinion, you can find at least one person who held that position. For example, Khaleel Mohammed also teaches that Palestine belongs to the Jews, or that tattoos are ok, etc. And in an interview I think Khaled Abou el Fadl said he was a Mutazilite.
Khaleel Mohammad and Khaled Abou El Fadel are primarily western academics not religious authorities. So yeah, they may be smart guys but I’m not sure they are in a position to give fatwas. And even in Hassan Al-Turabi’s case, other Sudanese scholars were calling him an apostate for what he said.
abdul-halim
August 25, 2010 at 6:09 am
Khaled Abou el Fadl studied shariah in Egypt and Kuwait. From the UCLA website:
“Dr. Abou El Fadl is also an Islamic jurist and scholar, having received 13 years of systematic instruction in Islamic jurisprudence, grammar and eloquence in Egypt and Kuwait.”
Anyway, even if he was primarily a western academic, that makes him unreliable?
Khadija
September 1, 2010 at 1:19 am
I think it is the strength of the argument and their credentials that matter, which is why others who feel threatened resort to cheap tactics as cowering such brilliant minds through apostasy charges and other deviant labels.
Tensil Toes
August 25, 2010 at 6:25 am
but what kind of credentials (western acadmic degrees? ijazas?) and how do you decide the strength of an argument? Are you measuring them against some kind of fixed and established criteria or are they “brilliant” and persuasive because they are saying what you want them to say?
Or from another point of view, the “cheap tactic” is to just give the names of isolated scholars who give rukhsas for what you want. The hard work would be to pick an established and sound methodology and apply it to the texts. And some parts may come out “easy” and some parts come out “hard”. But at least you know you aren’t following your ego.
abdul-halim
August 27, 2010 at 1:32 am
Just kidding guys I know what is halaal. ThiS marriage is not.
Feminists are usually single and lonely. I can’t find a good muslim man. That’s why I replied 15x on this blog
amazonbaby
August 25, 2010 at 8:06 am
The best scholarly orthodox exposition on the subject is by Moiz Amjad and Javed Ghamidi in Lahore. They both assert that while the ijma – consensus has been not to allow marriage with polytheists, it’s the definition of polytheists that counts. They go as far as to extend the permissability to theists – or believers in God, and not just ahl-al Kitab. They advise against it on social grounds however, not theological grounds, but – critically – do not forbid it. This is why I believe their reasoning is sound and why I think it’s okay – after years of subscribing to the taboo that it simply was not. There is a crisis of unmarried women or those already in relationships with non-Muslim men. Excluding them from society should have no basis whatsoever.
I’m proud of you Wajahat for hosting this piece and you Nadia for having written it. We may be orthodox but we’re not stupid. We neither have to subscribe to progressivist notions that are devoid of orthodoxy to qualify our arguments, nor traditionalist positions that don’t reflect our views.
It is high time the silent, orthodox Muslim that neither calls for shallow reforms nor for hardline anti-rights-based positions – speaks up.
Habiba Hamid
August 25, 2010 at 9:38 am
May I qualify that you can check for yourself: go to http://www.understanding-islam.com/ and search for articles about ‘marriage’. There are three that are pertinent.
Habiba Hamid
August 25, 2010 at 10:03 am
[...] For the motion: Nadia S. Mohammad [See her article here] [...]
“Muslim Women Should Not Be Able to Marry Non-Muslim Men”: The Goatmilk Debates « GOATMILK: An intellectual playground edited by Wajahat Ali
August 25, 2010 at 12:17 pm
A sneaky article:) She barely acknowledges the key point i.e. that the overwhelming consensus amongst Muslim scholars is that it is forbidden.
Instead she tries to list out (and then refute) what she believes are the underlying ‘justifications’ for the ruling. She also does a poor job of this.
Even if she were able to able to do a better job of refuting each one of the ‘justifications’ she lists, it still wouldn’t matter as not every prohibition or commandment in Islam needs a justification or ‘approval’ from us. Fasting has its benefits, but we don’t fast because we can see the benefits, we fast because we are commanded to do so. If there were no ‘visibile’ benefits to fasting, we would still do so, otherwise we end up second guessing Allah and only accepting what we feel like (which is exactly what this girl and others like her are doing).
In Islam we are ultimately commanded to ‘hear and obey’ and sometimes we don’t see the benefit an Islamic commandment till we are much older and wiser (if at all).
I’m glad she wrote the article – its good to discuss these things and I have several female Muslim friends who are discussing (or rather attempting to justify this), however the key point is that it is forbidden in Islam and this is the overwhelming consensus, whether you like it or not. One can always ‘fatwa shop’ find some ‘scholar’ who’ll tell you what you want to hear, but at the end of the day you have to be honest with yourself.
I (and some of my Muslim friends) do things which Islamically we are forbidden from doing so, and we hope that Allah forgives us for it one day, but we don’t try to fool ourselves and others by pretending its allowable.
Asad Khan
August 25, 2010 at 12:42 pm
The question is moot, for both men and women. It was permissible for Muslims during the time of the Prophet (rs) to marry, “People of the Book,” because during that time the message sent down by the prophets (as) was not significantly altered or changed as it is today. The Bible of the Christians and the Torah of the Jews have been altered with the passage of time. Thus, there is a consensus amongst scholars that marrying “People of the Book” is no longer permissible.
Secondly, it is incorrect to assume that Allah (swt) did not mention women in the second ayah that the author of this article refers to. Allah (swt) was very specific and clear in all his revelations to the Prophet (rs), moreover, the Quran in many other ayahs does differentiate and note situations and laws for men and for women.
Nevertheless, the question is moot, after one understands that marrying the “People of the Book” is not permissible in our day and age, because of the significant alterations made to the books that were revealed prior to the Quran.
Allah knows best. Jazakullah Khair.
Amazon Adult
August 25, 2010 at 4:32 pm
salaams,
yes, I alluded to this position elsewhere. I would just add that while I would be critical of the integrity of the Bible, I think the problems crept into the text at a very early age and the Bibles which existed in the West during the time of Muhammad (saaws) are not radically different from the Bible as Christians and Jews know it today. It is possible, that Middle Eastern Christians and Jews in the vicinity of Mecca and Medina had a different set of teachs and texts but I don’t think they were “original” Christians either.
At least, when I read a fatwa suggesting that even Muslim men shouldn’t marry Ahl al-Kitab the argument was that “Jews” and “Christians” today were more cultural “believers” and didn’t really take their own faiths all that seriously to begin with.
abdul-halim
August 25, 2010 at 8:29 pm
Your argument is very weak. The trinity was already well established by the 300′s, centuries before Islam. Also, the bible at that time was already compiled into a Greek translation of Jesus’ and the Hawariyun’s Aramaic speech and writings. The alterations were firmly established *very* early, which is why God sent Muhammad (duh).
Most of the arguements against marrying people of the book focus on post-colonial Muslim-identity politics. We SHOULD be thinking about such person’s spiritual health and having concern for their souls, not their tribal so-called identity.
OmarG
September 8, 2010 at 8:57 pm
as salam alaikum OmarG, I’m used to seeing you on Altmuslimah and not here.
I can answer the question regarding changes to the Bible: yes, during the time of the sahaba the worst (in my opinion) changes had occurred: the addition of the Trinity and the writings of Paul, not a prophet.
But the Bible has indeed changed since the time of the sahaba until present day. For one, the Bible was translated from Greek and Hebrew into Latin… and then into German… and then into English where it became the King James version (usually accepted by Evangelical Christians to be the verbatim word of Allah). Second, King James added and removed several key words in order to justify his political position (changed “Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live” into “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” so they could persecute and kill women).
Pardon my intrusion but my former life as a Christian comes in handy during discussions like these.
Revertive
September 14, 2010 at 12:58 pm
In most muamalaat cases an illah or justification is provided. In several ibadaah and ritual related cases (swine, prayers etc) the justification is not of import if the nass does not provide it.
The overwhelming consensus of the classical scholars went against music. Yet contemporary scholars, several of them have revised it. The overwhelming consensus of the classical scholars prescribed the death penalty for several crimes including apostasy, which were challenged by later scholars.
The majority is not always right. All four Imams, as well as scholars like Ibn Rushd, Ibn Hazm et al. were persecuted in their times, since at that time their opinions did not gel with others. Today they are part of mainstream orthodoxy or atleast taught in madrassas.
Tensil Toes
August 25, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Music is even use in pre-k and k Islamic class to reach little childern some Islamist lesson. Even in early Islamist history some music was allow to time the action of many people doing the same job. Every galley ship that have rower have than drumer who beat than steady beat so all rower did the same action at almost the same time.
Brian C. Hoff
September 14, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Tensil,
While it is important to mention the positions of scholars on certain issues, we should not have a habit of just running to them just to make a point. Islam is based on revelation not scholars.
While the majority can be wrong, they must be wrong for a reason. What I’m seeing here is not that but revisionism. This trend has been popular for the past hundred years, even more so since the advent of the Internet. In a prophecy come true, the knowledge will be taken away from the real scholars. We have so many armchair scholars that it is causing a awakening of revisionism.
Mahdi Ahmad
August 25, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Brother Mahdi Ahmad,
I believe the issue of scholars comes up when controversial subjects are discussed. Most people who prefer the comfortable status quo positions usually make claims like:
a) none of the previous scholars/ madhabs held the newer position
b) there is already ijma on this
To which one humbly refers them to scholars who thought otherwise.
And therein lies the beauty of Islam. Was it not the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) to have said ‘Ikhtilaf is Rahma’. Now truth be told, there is Ikhtilaf even on this
fi aman allah
Tensil Toes
August 25, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Rethinking Reformation
Hamza Yusuf + Tariq Ramadan
http://vimeo.com/13738819
zeenah
August 25, 2010 at 7:01 pm
I liked this. Jazakallahu khair. In terms of the current discussion I liked Hamza Yusuf’s point that the tradition is still sound.
abdul-halim
August 27, 2010 at 5:08 pm
First The verse of the Koran that cover interfaith marriage can have different meaning to diffetrent muslim. I think donot marry your women to people who believe in more than one god. At our mosque than muslim female teenager got into touble she was over than friend house than vedio was make of her drink acholic drink and she started to take her clothes off in mixed company. Her parent are grounding her permantly. We are liveing in the west not than Islamist country. There are going to more probium like this happen in the future. The video appear on myspace.
Brian C. Hoff
August 25, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Alhamdulillah! Great debate.
As to some of these comments, let’s clarify a couple things.
Our Islam exists without clergy, church or any other kind of hierarchical system because to adopt any such system, amongst other things, would imply that there exists a position between man and Allah(swt). A person’s relationship is directly with Allah(swt) and his faith is accountable to only Allah(swt). The distinction also serves the purpose of drawing a clear line between the supremacy of His divinity over man… every man.
Consequently, while debate is welcome, as are opinions of all walks and the interpretations of any school, these are solely the musings of MAN. They do not, they can not, they are forbidden from being ordained as law; they can not be interpreted as the will of Allah(swt). To do so is to essentially declare oneself as the voice of Allah(swt). This is shirk, no question.
Allah(swt) has given us the Quran as His voice, to ascribe anything from that text as law which was not expressly made law by Allah is an attempt to equate oneself with the knowledge, the will, the divinity of Allah(swt), a grace bestowed upon no man today.
Now I say this because the conservative side of this debate is inclined to quote scholars in place of Allah(swt) and when quoting Allah(swt) they elect to ‘explain’ what Allah(swt) meant to say; they also seem hell bent on condemning this blog, and anyone with the temerity to voice an opinion in opposition of the antiquated historical dogma, to an afterlife of fire and brimstone.
To those who chose to be this type of person in their commentary, I promise you, I guarantee you, you are not He. You are not His voice, you are not the ‘protector’ of His faith, you are not preserving His divine will.
What you are doing, likely successfully, is annoying Him because, purely for a difference of opinion, you’ve elected to castigate others over embracing them. What’s more, your treating this debate… this solid, honest and heartfelt debate between two people that probably respect each other quite a bit, as Satan’s stew.
Seriously, calm down.
Re-evaluate your thoughts…
Reduce thoughts to comments with a sprinkling of logic and rationale (maybe a little humility too if you can spare it)…
Filter the comments before they make it to your fingertips…
Then post.
Otherwise, keep it to yourself. Respect of others is an express requirement prescribed by Allah(swt). That you CAN take to the bank (I mean Quran of course).
RSHaq
August 25, 2010 at 8:18 pm
RSHaq, thank you for eloquently stating the position of the people who have come to this blog in earnest to seek out the truth. The reason why we are here is to escape the dogmatic perspective of the scholars. But these conservative folk come online to coax us back to that which we do not want any part of. It’s time the educated muslim ummah take Islam back from the ignorant, out-of-touch “scholars” who have caused mostly trouble for Islam. QURAN first, everything else is pure hearsay, especially if it comes from some guy with a beard who folds his pants…
JP
August 27, 2010 at 3:33 am
I agree with much of what you said but I also see another side of the issue. I was raised Christian. And part of the reason why I’m not Christian anymore is that I found certain things in the Bible which I fundamentally disagreed with, and going along with that, I came to believe that the Christian Church (and the overwhelming number of Christian Churches existing today) suffer from a basic discontinuity from what Jesus (or Moses for that matter) originally taught. (the details of this is a whole other discussion)
And then after being in a religious “in between” period of reading about different faiths, flirting with agnosticism, etc. I found myself more and more attracted to Islam. And a part of that was that I found that the Quran appealed to my sense of what was true and right, but another part of that was that I came to understand that the mainstream of Islam was more faithful to what Muhammad brought than the mainstream of Christianity was faithful to what Christ brought.
That’s not to say Muslims are perfect and wonderful and infallible but that the faith was adequately transmitted in a sound fashion.
So I agree with you that there is no clergy in Islam. And the only infallible authority which is clearly accessible to us today is the Quran. And I agree with you that the interpretations of the human scholars shouldn’t be mistaken for divine judgements. But on the other hand I don’t believe that the ummah is in some kind of general state of apostacy. And the scholars of the past aren’t just know-nothing people. And I think there is virtue in having a great deal of respect for those tried and approved methodologies instead of going the Protestant style-Reformation route.
The Reformation wasn’t an unqualified good. It led to a great deal of divisiveness and violence in Western History like the 100 years War and 1000s of different denominations.
The Imams who “founded” the four sunni schools weren’t just working alone. They had students after them who were also respected scholars who refined their methodologies and added to their knowledge and corrected the mistakes of those who came before. They aren’t just the product of some guy but literally hundreds and thousands of scholars building on one another (and arguing and debating with one another) seeking the truth.
And I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be questioned. But for our own sake, and understanding, and the good of the ummah, we should give them their due.
Also, in terms of individualism, I actually would think of myself as a very skeptical and questioning person by temperament. Otherwise I wouldn’t have converted from the religion I was raised in into something new. But at the same time, if I wanted to just make up my own religion to satisfy my whims I could have become a Unitarian or something (no diss, intended to Unitarians, they are just extremely non-dogmatic and unstructured).
Dogma isn’t necessarily a bad thing. As Muslims, we actually do have specific beliefs.
abdul-halim
August 27, 2010 at 9:26 pm
There are Islamoprobic Hater like Robert Spencer who want Islam to go thought than Reformation process like Christian did. Islam doesnot needed tham Reformation. The main problen with Christion is the Jesus the Son of God and the Trinity (God the Father, Jesus the Son of God and the Holy Ghost). At lest the Unitarian School doesnot believe that Jesus is the Son of God and they donot believe in the Trinity they are than old sect of Christian from 3th century ACE.
Brian C. Hoff
August 28, 2010 at 5:48 am
I wonder why would a non-Muslim man take the burden of marrying a woman who is covered from head to toe, he can’t take her to a bar or dance with her in a night club, she will fast every year in Ramadan and thus no food and no sexual intercourse allowed during the day for a whole month..etc and the list goes!
If you are not a Muslim man and you think you can take this then you are certainly a hero..!
btw, I’m a Muslim woman who had several crushes on non-Muslim men before so I know for sure it’s not gonna work if you are a practicing Muslim woman..
Shimaa Eid
August 26, 2010 at 4:35 am
May-be he want to change his life sytle than become muslim.
Brian C. Hoff
August 26, 2010 at 7:43 am
What is she is a non-practicing Muslim woman?
xey
August 26, 2010 at 8:29 pm
wow, even though I would agree with the larger point that a Muslim woman shouldn’t marry a non-Muslim man I’m not sure why we have to defend that position by making a whole lot of assumptions about non-Muslim behavior, expectations, basic decency, etc. Non-Muslims aren’t all horny alcoholics. That’s not really the point. The issue is more that saying and believing “La illaha illa Allah. Muhammad rasul Allah” weighs a great deal.
abdul-halim
August 27, 2010 at 4:45 am
i find this debate rather stimulating..i am not of a muslim background instead am of a christian back ground and also here i find i have some squabbles about somethings in the Bible but in the end i always question both muslims and christians and whatever other religin we follow..is Gods word or Allahs word his original thought?what i mean is how such are u that it hasnt been changed to suit the likes of men??or the interpretation of men.
Second the God that you worship individually is he so unjust that he cant allow for one to do somethings?
Third whatever you do..should u live as though u were doing it 4 God and not for man?thats what the Bible states i dont know abt the Quran..
and in the end i find somethings are not as God would have wanted then to be bt we as humans just interpretate them to our liking..
so before critising and condemn think of what God would have wanted also empathise..ask urself if u weer i her shoes what u would do..
Kirei
August 26, 2010 at 9:37 am
[...] the motion: Nadia S. Mohammad [See her article here] and May [...]
“Muslim Women Should NOT Be Able to Marry Non-Muslim Men”: The Goatmilk Debates « GOATMILK: An intellectual playground edited by Wajahat Ali
August 26, 2010 at 11:08 am
im reading some of these and this hurts me so bad because its questioning the word of Allah(god) im a muslim and ill be honest i though why cant i marry an american man and all that but just reading all of this hurts because its like everyone wants to find something like a loop hole to question everything and thats not right what god has written he has written for a purpose and what he wrote it to protect us from bad and to do good
arabprincess
August 26, 2010 at 11:34 am
Our America Courts alots of time look at past ruleing which are taken as and use in our courts to make ruleing on legal matter. In the 1890′s our Hight Court rule there can be seperate factice(bathroom, public school and etc) but equall for all races. In 1954 the Hight Court reverse itself when they found public school wasnot equall for all races. They rule that schools must bus kids to over school to have = numbers of races kid in each school. Alots of racist white hated that ruleing. The funny thing is that black have to be bus over 5 miles to than black public school while there was than all white public school across the street.
We all know that the Koran say you cannot have more than 4 wifes at the same time. What it than illness kill lot more men than women that the planet ended up with 25 women to each man, the religious scholar can temp change that ruleing to allow each man to have more than 4 wifes at the same time untril the ratio of man to woman correct itself.
Brian C. Hoff
August 26, 2010 at 7:42 pm
American does not equal non-Muslim.
abdul-halim
August 27, 2010 at 1:18 am
That’s absolutely right, I’m an american and I’m a muslim so please mind your words.
JP
August 27, 2010 at 3:35 am
All court of Law will hear new case of points settle in the past as law to see it they are vaild. In the public school case the all white school got 5 time the money of than all black school, the all white school was better maintrain compare to than all black school. So they didnot meet the 1890′s Hight Court standard of being seperate and = they where seperate and not =.
Brian C. Hoff
August 27, 2010 at 5:24 am
American Muslim here, too. Although you can’t marry me Arabprincess because I’m a woman.
Revertive
September 14, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Great Blog for me tho it doesnt get better then http://www.linegod.com it is a great place to start for chrtisan dating service.
Sabine Shamapande
August 27, 2010 at 5:51 am
Its not more than a fiction. In India muslim men marry to hindu women and hindu men marry to muslim women. The question is, can a man or woman who believes in Allah, do against Allah’s saying?
Jamshaid Khan Barki
August 30, 2010 at 8:33 am
Good old lawless India where 20,000 criminal convict by me tear down illegality than mosque mosque thaqn the BJP than fascot party form along the line of Hilter Nazie party in the 1930′sapprove of that lawless act.
Brian C. Hoff
August 30, 2010 at 11:28 am
You forgot a significant ayah from the Quran. Surah Mumtahanah, ayah’s 1-10 emphasize associations between muslims and non-muslims. I draw your attention specifically to ayah 10:
“O you who believe! When believing women come to you as emigrants, examine them; Allaah knows best as to their Faith, then if you ascertain that they are true believers send them not back to the disbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (husbands) for them” 60:10
End of story. Quran final and perfect word of God.
Hasan
September 1, 2010 at 11:59 pm
Come on Hasan!
Suppose you meet a nice friendly optimistic girl, suppose she is an European,blond Dutch girl.You fall in love with her and she with you and of course you want to marry her.
Unfortunately she is not a Muslim but lets say she is agnostic.(She has no religion but is neither atheist, in fact she doubt)
Then you look in your moral cooking book and you find out that an hypotetic, non existing being named Allah forbids you to marry that nice girl just because she is not a Muslim.
What are you gonna to do???
JJ Rousseau
September 2, 2010 at 8:38 am
You keep the faith:
“And it may be that you hate a thing which is good for you, and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Yet, Allah knows best.” 2:216
Hasan
September 3, 2010 at 4:26 am
Dear Hasan,
Do you have also personal toughts and convictions?
Your answer is a perfect illustration of the image we have from Muslims here in Europe: Muslim are people who cannot think for themselves, they always think “secondhand” and have to look in their “cookbook” or to ask a fatwa to an Imam.
Then you may get their standard answer, they never give you their personal opinion.
That is the very reason of our “Islamophobia” : the confrontatation with preprogrammed beings unable to think for themselves…
JJ Rousseau
September 3, 2010 at 9:15 am
This is my personal answer. Self-sacrifice has value in life. You have to be willing to sacrifice and make the hard decisions because God commanded you to. It’s as simple as that. These are my personal convictions, that’s why Islam is “Submission to God”. You give yourself whole-heartedly to something greater than you. Have some faith. Just because I’m referring to the Quran does not mean I’m preprogrammed, I’m simply referring to a point of reference (and a book that has all the asnwers for anything, not a “cookbook”) for my motivations and why I believe what I do.
Hasan
September 3, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Very good answer Hasan , I really appreciate that!
can you understand that I am an atheist in the sense that I do not believe in the Christian God or in Allah but in somewhat much bigger , a kind of eternal and cosmic energy that gives everything a meaning?
JJ.Rousseau
September 3, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Fatwa is than legal ruleing. I cannot issue than Fatwa that will be legal, Osama bin Laden cannot issue Fatwa that are legal binding on muslins. Muslim can think for thenself but they worry about what other muslim think also. What about the illegal laws in French that ban muslim women from wearing Islamist approve clothes. It I was the mayor of the city where I live I would issue than legal ruleing declare the entire French Government illegal than nobody in French needed to obey they government laws.
Brian C. Hoff
September 4, 2010 at 7:38 am
Sorry Brian,
Islam approved clothes-exept the Burqa- are allowed in France and in Belgium where I live.
Burqa is forbidden for 2 reasons: for securityreasons and for not to hamper communication between persons.
I learn’t that nowhere in the Koran or hadiths is asked to to wear a Burqa.
But I have another question for you:why is it not allowed to build Christian churches in Moslim countries altough Moslims are allowed to build Mosques in European countries?
Why is apostasy forbidden altough islam says: “there is no compulsion in religion”?
Why it is dangerous to out you as an atheist, a freemason, an homosexual in a Moslim country?
JJ Rousseau
September 4, 2010 at 8:26 am
You mean you’re agnostic. That doesn’t make your “cosmic energy” any different from Allah, God, or Yahweh. They’re just words referring to the same being
Hasan
September 4, 2010 at 4:10 am
JJ first the Burqa is approve Islamist clothes so outlawing the Burqa is illegal in my opion. What security threat you are going to much by what Islamoprobia like Mad Mel ande that dutch member of parliament who is homosexual. In our mosque we have woman who wear the Burqa with no face covering and with face covering I have no touble communication with the women, phoney reason to ban the Burqa. The only place in the world that churches and other religious builting cannot be place is the two Holy Cities in Islam. During Meccaq war with Medina some muslim took the side of the pagon they where execute for treason against the Islamist state. Homosexual who do they sexual act in public can be put on trail in than Islamist court of law.
Brian C. Hoff
September 4, 2010 at 6:23 pm
Sorry Brian,
this is a very very poor answer!
JJ.Rousseau
September 4, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Muslim arenot under the threat of Death for leaveingt Islam as longt as they donot attack Islam. If you are unable to talk to than women wearing than veil cover her face the touble is at your end.
Brian C. Hoff
September 5, 2010 at 5:26 am
Brian, I agree with you. It is a horrible attack on the beautiful religion to say that women may not be seen or heard. The Qur’an and the Prophet (SAWS) did not tell people to treat women differently. MEN oppress women, NOT Islam.
Khadija
September 5, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Khadija,
I really cannot understand the meaning of your comment.
I suppose Brian tried to say( after an attempt to understand his horrible English)
“It is your problem if you are only able to talk to veiled women”
or did I misunderstood?
And kadija , do you wear a burqa yourself?
I have read your website and I do not think you do…
JJ.Rousseau
September 5, 2010 at 5:07 pm
I e-mail than female member of our mosque broad of Trustee that we needed to educate our female and male muslim teenagers about the danger of drink alchol, takeing illegal drug, STD(sexual Transit Illness) and senting nude picture of yourself over the internet and removeing all wed carmon from your computer. First America is in mortal decay which is getting worst. Pron maker are picking up teenager girl nude picture sent over the internet an blackmail then into have more sexual explicate picture taken an in the future useing then in porn film. Many of board member both female and male think we needed to protect our childern includeing teenager from harn. First acholic drink are legal in america an too easyies availture. They non-muslim friend donot care about mortality. But we also cannot act like the religious police in some countries. We needed to be frank with the teenager about the danger of STD but tell the truth not lies about the danger. Female teenager would like to have childern when marrage in the future many STD stop you from have childern in the future an too many STD are anti-bio restante to all anti-bio drugs we have. I know too many parent would like to not have they teenager educrate this way as they believe if keep quite about this it will go way. I than 60 year old with no kid of my own.
Brian C. Hoff
September 5, 2010 at 5:27 pm
All of the comments blindly attacking the author and the blog are completely baseless.
Thank you for publishing such an important and intelligent article. May Allah reward you for your efforts in shedding light upon our deen.
Nouf
September 10, 2010 at 5:17 am
Aslamu Alaykum!
hmmm, i was brought up on that Muslim women marrying non muslims were wrong
i can see that if you were to because of love the women would lose her way! Go mosque less often, pray less often and the children would maybe brought up on Islamic morals but probs lack the teachings of their deen!
If there is no hard evidence in the Quran then i say its better to be safe than sorry!!!
God bless you all and Eid Mubarak!
Let Live!
September 10, 2010 at 11:44 pm
Cant the same argument be used to discourage muslim men from marrying non-muslim women? That maybe the family and the kids would lose the proper teaching of the deen? actually..cant that even happen if both parents are muslim but just not very good at enforcing religion in the household or attentive to their children?
Bottom line..nothing in the quran stops muslim women from marrying non-mulim men. All arguments are just fear tactics that are not evidence-based…
Nouf
September 11, 2010 at 2:29 am
What I mean when the Prime Minister of the UK say that he needed to see the woman face to be able to talk with her show that he is unfit to be PM of that nation. I talk to one veil woman durning set up work durning the fasting month than I have no touble talking with her. Our secretary fell behind in her admin work for trying to woman set up working which I did in the past which is mostly done when there is harty any women in the mosque than the one there have no problen with brother doing some of the worked for then. I told her let me do that setting up worked for her.
Brian C. Hoff
September 11, 2010 at 3:13 am
Brian,
Most of your comments are completely incomprehensible.
I have read this comment at least 5 times.
The only thing I think to understand is that the Prime Minister of the UK in your opinion is unfit to be PM because he is not able tot talk to a full face veiled woman.
The rest of your comment: sorry incomprehensible.
Learn English please or leave this forum or at least ask a better skilled friend to correct your bullshit.
JJ Rousseau
September 11, 2010 at 12:42 pm
I than sorry that you hight IQ people caqnnot understand sinple english any more. I do alots of the setup worked for Istar Dinner at the Mosque where I go. I mostly worked in the man area but needed to travel thought the woman area to get paperplates, and other item to do my job. In the past I did get do setup worked in the woman area when the one woman who wear the viel was too ill to do it so I did it. Our Secretary try to do too much other worked, so I told her let me do the setup worked in the woman area as there is very few women in the area and they donot mind if I do it.
Brian C. Hoff
September 11, 2010 at 4:46 pm
That Secretary was than other woman who does not wear the veil at all.
Brian C. Hoff
September 11, 2010 at 3:14 am
I give up!
JJ.Rousseau
September 11, 2010 at 5:59 pm
I did told you I wasw born with than brain damage speech center and I than now 60 year old. I than looking forward to being married to than nice muslim woman.
Brian C. Hoff
September 12, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Once than DA told me he was glad that someone with my disabilites isnot afraid to talk or write.
Brian C. Hoff
September 13, 2010 at 11:30 am
I know it’s hard to understand him, but I could understand him, well, mostly… But I have been talking to lots of “people who can’t speak English very well” for a long time… Just try to understand what he wanted to say, not what he said, and if you want, I can translate it for you…
Optamizm
November 12, 2010 at 6:18 pm
[...] Growing up as a Pakistani-South African Muslim in suburbia New Jersey, Nadia Mohammad spent much of her childhood thinking she was Desi until she moved to Pakistan and learned she was American. Returning to the U.S. with this new perspective and a defiance of social stereotypes she delved into the world of South Asian and Muslim American media and activism. A lawyer in Chicago, she continues to believe in the values of justice and equality with cupcakes for all. An earlier version of this article was previously published at The Goatmilk Debates. [...]
30 MOSQUES IN 30 DAYS PROJECT “We’re not historians, but these stories are important” « the naked truth politics from the heart
September 13, 2010 at 6:42 pm
Revertive you are so right. There was alot of killing by christian in the Rome Empire over the Trinely by the pro and con forces. It is now knowly that the very early christian where very much like the Jew in believe that there was one God that wasnot One God slip into 3 God.
Brian C. Hoff
September 14, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Can it be any clearer than this: “O you who believe! When believing women come to you as emigrants, examine them, Allah knows best as to their Faith, then if you ascertain that they are true believers, send them not back to the disbelievers, they are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (husbands) for them….” (Surah al-Mumtahanah, 60:10)
Zawj
September 23, 2010 at 11:07 am
Please see the addendum posted.
Nadia M
September 23, 2010 at 7:00 pm
This is only the beginning of a discussion. By no means is my piece a be-all and end-all answer. AltMuslimah (www.altmuslimah.com/a/b/rsa/3948/) picked up this debate as well. So I took the liberty of adding an Addendum there, which I thought to add here. Hopefully, that alleviates some concerns, and further demonstrates the need of in-depth scholarship to bring clarity in this area.
***Addendum***
Salaam all,
I wanted to follow up with a mini-addendum to this article. Since the original post on http://www.goatmilkblog.com I received much feedback, mostly positive, some negative. I want to address some concerns brought up and point out other areas of research that should be explored.
First off, some have expressed concern about discussions of such topics by non-scholars and the risk of readers accepting an opinion as if it were a fatwa. I think each of us adequately expressed that we are not scholars. We were each exploring the development of one side of the issue and were limited in our word count. The debate style is simply to facilitate discussions that are already occurring in the community. Articles such as these are not meant to provide one-stop-shop answers or fatwas, we can only give readers a reference points to explore. It is up to the reader to investigate the issue further and make a well-informed decision on his or her life choices.
Second, should any of the readers be interested in exploring this issue further, I would like to briefly touch upon a few points that have not been brought up by the other debaters here:
1) We are taught that men and women are equal but have “rights” over one another when pertaining to certain issues. Thus, the underlying issue here, in my opinion, is whether women and men have equal rights when it comes to their options for marriage. For those who accept that they do not, the discussion is moot. They believe that there is an inherent inequality in marriageable options for men and women, and that this notion is founded in Islamic text. Those who do not agree with the aforementioned premise are trying to understand the accepted Islamic tradition of this inequality, why it exists and whether it is an accurate interpretation of Islamic text.
2) There are, however, some who argue that the equality does exist, just not as traditionally accepted. They define this equality by prohibiting both men and women from marrying non-Muslims (kitabiyya included). This is for several reasons, such as: a) the definition of kitabiyya only pertains to Muslims, b) even if kitabiyya did pertain to Jews and Christians before, the deviation of these groups from certain key Islamic principles make this definition invalid today.
3) One other point of contention is Surah Al-Mumtahanah (http://www.quran.com/60). This Surah is often misread/misinterpreted when used on a variety of issues. The reason for this may be due to lack of Arabic skills and background knowledge. Still, the gravest error made with this Surah and many others is taking ayats or parts of ayats while disregarding the rest. For example, 60:1 revealed during a time of particular tribulation, tells believers not to take Allah’s enemies (disbelievers) as allies at a time of war. 60:7, then states that Allah might turn your enemies into your allies, and that He is most forgiving and merciful. So one can see how 60:1, if taken out of context, can ignore the true message at hand.
60:10 is sometimes used in the marrying/not marrying non-Muslims debate as evidence that women may not marry non-Muslims, Jews and Christians included. The ayat speaks of those converting during this time of contention for the community (at times this would be in secret or at a risk to them). It says that when these believing women come to the believing men, the believing men should not send them back to the disbelievers as they are no longer regarded as lawful for them (in marriage). Those arguing against women marrying non-Muslims, stop here. But this seems to be a major error, as the ayat continues and states that the believing men should not hold on to their marriage bonds with disbelieving women.
So several questions arise from ayat 60:10 – a) which disbelievers are being spoken of and under what context? b) how does this ayat contribute to the debate over the meaning of kitabiyya? c) if this ayat can be used to demonstrate that women are explicitly prohibited from being married to any non-Muslims, then does this not explicitly prohibit men from doing the same, thus, demonstrating equality?
I explored the popular argument in my original article and the loopholes in this reasoning because I felt it was a good start to such a discussion. I would also like to point out that we, as Muslims, are instructed as to the qualities to seek prospective spouses. These qualities are expected, ideally, to be inherent in a Muslim. Therefore, as I mentioned in my article, it seems quite clear for many reasons why marrying a non-Muslim, even a Christian or Jew, would be strongly discouraged for women or men. But the popular argument as to why it is prohibited for women does not provide an adequate explanation. This means, if there is a “yes” or “no” answer on this issue, the opinion has not been fully formulated for the masses. It is understandable that the popular opinion was accepted by all schools of thought, because men often traveled and needed more marriageable options, while women did not, and by living primarily in Muslim societies did not find a need to explore the issue further. This is simply not the case for many young Muslims today living in non-Muslim societies. This is forcing many to act as they deem appropriate despite the confusion.
Ultimately, this all demonstrates a need for further scholarly exploration of all aspects of the issues to determine a) whether Muslim women and men have equal options when it comes to choosing a partner in marriage and b) what these options are and the standards accepted.
Insha’Allah, that clears up some confusion as to the nature and purpose of this discussion and provides some relevant reference points for exploration. As always, Allah knows best.
Nadia M
September 23, 2010 at 6:59 pm
So I came across this blog in search of an answer to this.
Can a Muslim woman marry a non-Muslim man?
I for one am raised Christian, however I do not describe myself as such anymore. I do believe in God still but I’m on a quest sort of, for truth and meaning on what it means to be a true believer. It’s important to do good and to act right.
I met Muslim friends this year. I was even invited to attend a mosque because I am interested in learning more about Islam. I would say the only thing that bothers me is the marriage issue.
Is it really forbidden in sense that there’s punishment? That a woman will be kicked out? Excommunicated? I surely hope not. If I would continue to live my life as a believer (which is not an if, it’s an is) and love is present between myself and a Muslim woman, I would respect her and her faith. Because not just as a believer but also as a man, I fell in love and married a woman for all she is.
Jeans
September 26, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Well said…. Insha’allah, you will find her!
Aliya
September 30, 2010 at 10:36 pm
Jeans, Good luck to you! I hope you find a great woman (muslim or non-muslim) who will love and respect you too for all respect and love you give her. I am a Muslim woman and have met many respectful non-Muslim men so I understand where your question is coming from. btw,I have posted a reply to Sister Soul here:
http://goatmilkblog.com/2010/08/26/%E2%80%9Cmuslim-women-should-not-be-able-to-marry-non-muslim-men%E2%80%9D-the-goatmilk-debates/
N
October 1, 2010 at 2:12 am
I reverted to Islam this past May, after months of study and practicing the deen. My husband(who is not Muslim and is very Christian) introduced me to my first real “taste” of Islam. He bought me a Quran a couple days after Christmas. He gave it to me as matteroffactly, “Here is something I think you may be interested in”. I read the book, cover to cover and decided it was what I was looking for. I believed in G-D, but I didn’t attest to one particular faith. When I read the Quran, It just touched my heart and made me weep.
My husband encourages me to go to the mosque, asks me if I prayed today, buys me scarves and when I am away from my cell phone and the adhan alarm goes off, calls me from wherever I am in the house that it is going off. I love him for giving me this book,(The Words) and filling in me a void that had been in my heart for a long time. Alhamdulillah!
SideNote: We have a son who attends the mosque with me on occasion. He also goes to church with his grandparents,who don’t preach the trinity and is learning both faiths. He asks questions and we both try our best to answer them. I think that Islam is just the natural progression from Christianity. Plus, aren’t we supposed to study and believe in all the revelations sent by Allah? What is important is that one belief that it is One God, with no partners.
Aliya
September 30, 2010 at 10:34 pm
are u sure u have read the quran cover to cover
‘Say: The Truth has come from your Lord. Let him who will, believe it, and let him who will, reject it.’
(al-Kahf 18: 29)
In which hadith, besides God and His revelation do they believe? (45:6)
They insist upon following conjecture, when? the guidance is given to them herein from their Lord.” (53:23)
According to the? Quran, there is only one valid sunna (law): God’s law (Sunnatullah) (33:38,62; 35:43; 40:85; 48:23).
The Quran is not a fabricated Hadith; …it details everything. [12:111]
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion – never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be
among the losers chaptar 3.85
And when a messenger from? Allah came to them confirming that which was with them, a party of those who had been given the Scripture threw the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know(2.101)
This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. (5.3)
Islam does not work on what u think Islam only works form Quran okay so please if u want to follow 2 religions go ahead but please do not misguide others
thanks
So we cannot be reformers
Verily, the only acceptable religion to Allah is Islam.”
[Noble Quran 3:19]
s
December 27, 2011 at 1:46 am
Where in my comment did I say I was practicing two faiths? My family is just fine, no problems, my husband isn’t persecuting me, and when I’m able I go to Jumu’ah when my work schedule as a police officer permits. I have no one to answer to,and prove something to but the Creator. Not you, or the general public.
aliya
December 28, 2011 at 12:20 pm
In response to your ayat, ” Verily, the only acceptable religion to Allah is Islam.” [Noble Quran 3:19] We should always try to understand the meaning. Islam means peace and submission to our One creator, most Powerful..so its not about ppl born muslim who preach but about the acceptable way to God is to submit everything to God, if ppl try, God helps. And its better to see the entire world that God gave instead of just looking at one type of ppl and thinking thats reality of all that there is. Then why the Quran didnt come down to Noah or Abraham..each time is different and we have to be grateful that we have been blessed with it, but doesnt mean thats the only way someone will go to heaven..its really the way that you live according to how Allah expects from us. If ppl didnt stray in the first place, God wouldnt have to send any books or prophets.
islam
January 3, 2012 at 1:42 am
i do not care what u do in ur life
please if u want to follow 2 religions go ahead but please do not misguide others
(aren’t we supposed to study and believe in all the revelations sent by Allah? )
thats what it looks like on the comment of urs above, u can do both but
i just said do not misguide others on that comment
and when did i says u have to answer to me?
s
December 29, 2011 at 12:45 am
If you don’t care, then why the hell comment? I’m done, with ignorant comments about what I should do, and how I am somehow influencing people otherwise. I’m sure people reading this are smart enough to come to their own conclusions. As salaamu alaikum. Bye bye!!!!!
aliya
January 2, 2012 at 1:49 pm
In Iran, which has the government of Allah, it is illegal for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man.
I have heard from an Iranian woman that the divorce rate in Iran is 75%. This is 50% higher than that of the U.S., which most often credited with the highest divorce rate. The rate has been published as high as %80 with criticism of love marriages having a 90% divorce rate.
http://www.payvand.com/news/09/may/1257.html
If it is so great for a muslim woman to marry a muslim man, why are 80% of petitions for divorce in Iran filed by women?
http://www.tehrantimes.com/Index_view.asp?code=194950
“The SCRO has recently urged its provincial departments not to disclose divorce figures so as ‘not to disrupt public opinion’.”
http://www.irannewsdigest.com/2010/07/06/divorce-rate-defies-iran’s-strict-regime/
“The rise of the average age of marriage and the increase in the rate of divorce have been accompanied by a sharp upsurge of temporary marriages (mut’ah or sigheh), permissible and practiced among Shi’i Muslim societies.”
http://www.tau.ac.il/humanities/iranian_studies/pulse38.eng.html
“Most women in our society have long been opposed to sigheh and polygamy. They have only accepted the practice out of distress and necessity. Among families, traditional as well as modern, religious as well as secular, and among women as well as men, sigheh has always been associated with shame and regarded as a stigma. It seems that this will continue to be the case in the future. Opposition to the practice has been reflected clearly in various studies that have been conducted during the past few years by governmental institutions and independent researchers…
In other words, public opinion in our society considers sigheh to be an unethical behavior that falls under the category of the economy of pleasure. Although some practice it, sigheh is not considered sanctifiable. Therefore, defense of the practice of sigheh, under any justification or basis, represents an undemocratic and patriarchal attitude contemptuous of the demands of the majority of Iranian women and the ethical judgment of society…”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/03/temporary-marriage-and-the-economy-of-pleasure.html
Enrique
November 6, 2010 at 8:25 am
This clearly shows why moderate muslims are a big problem to the ummah. Moderate muslims and Wahhabi/Salafis are exactly the two sides to the same coin – using the modern liberal approach – entrenched in individualism. May God guide us all.
Oz Guy
November 9, 2010 at 11:10 am
What if the woman is a Muslim and the man is an Agnostic (doesn’t believe in the existence nor the inexistent of a God).The Agnostic man isnt convinced that there is or isnt a Higher Being.
Also, If that man (the agnostic) is the kind that truly respects the rights of his Muslim lady he loves and doesnt interfere in her practices, then would it be permissable (my the Qur’an) for a Muslim lady to marry an Agnostic, who will not stand in the way of her Muslim practices and let her raise her children in her religion.
Question
November 11, 2010 at 1:55 pm
You’re thinking of Atheist, not Agnostic… Agnostics believe in God, but don’t have a specific religion…
Optamizm
November 12, 2010 at 6:43 pm
and to reply to your question, no, a Muslim can’t marry an Atheist…
Optamizm
November 12, 2010 at 6:45 pm
What if the ‘muslim’ woman herself is basically atheist/agnostic? Yet people (her parents, family, community what not) tell her she must not on any account marry a non-muslim, including another atheist/agnostic just like herself! Rather they would prefer she marry a muslim man, yet don’t realise that such a thing is of course against the faith too (a muslim man can not marry an atheist/agnostic woman and have an islamically valid nikah).
I think this is the situation facing many ‘cultural muslims’ like myself in the west. I’ve never practised the faith, don’t make any pretense of doing so and frankly don’t believe in any gods/goddesses/imaginary sky fairy/afterlife/jinns yet my parents and others in the community still insist on calling me a ‘muslim.’ Then they expect you to get married according to islamic rules and have an islamic nikah, despite knowing you don’t believe in any of that stuff.
Any other cultural muslims but functional atheists face this situation? How do you deal with parental pressure and cultural pressure to conform to being ‘muslim’ even if you think organized religion is bullshit?
Leila
November 13, 2010 at 5:03 am
Oh and I think I have it bad here in the west. What about agnostics/atheists who have to tow the community line and pretend to be ‘muslim’ in countries governed by islamic law like Saudi Arabia or Iran? Can a Saudi agnostic woman of ‘muslim’ family marry a non-muslim man, given that she does not believe in the legitimacy of the shariah and quran?
Leila
November 13, 2010 at 5:15 am
Hi there,
I have finally finished reading all of your posts i enjoyed taking a look at what you guys think, and what has been said, but i honestly havent found an answer though.. everyone here has different thoughts.. i am an american muslim.. im 19, dont want to get married just yet, but i still think about my future.. i do love someone.. but hes christian.. he says he loves me and will care through everything.. i told him i think muslim women cant get married to nonmuslim men, i have found many reasons why… but at the same time i see lots of people saying its fine to marry a nonmuslim as long as he doesnt interrupt with the religion you follow, he is a christian and so are his parents, he started reading the Quran and told me he feels like a muslim already.. but he is scared of what his parent would think, especially because his mom works at the church… well anyways, my question is.. Can a muslim women marry a christian?? i am deeply inlove with him.. and him caring soo much for me, also.. hes slowly walking to the right path, which makes me very happy…. reading the Quran without me trying to force him.. anyways i would appreciate a nice response,
Thanks, Noor
Noor
January 27, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Dear Noor,
If you really belief that everything in the Koran is true and other beliefs are wrong then it is better not to marry a Christian,Hindu,Mormon or Atheist.
Your “religious” belief will always be a point of discussion and source of anger in your marriage.
You will always depend of fatwa’s and traditonnal ideas about what is good or wrong in your marriage.
But if you accept that all human beings are equal and that religions are just phantasies then marry the man of your heart regardless his religion.
Allah or God simply doesn’t exist and there is no afterlife.
The only but precious thing humans have is their life on earth. Make the best of it!
Set you free of all teachings of Priests,Imams aso, they just try to have a hold on you.
There is undoubtly a higher spiritual reality but that has nothing to do with so called religions as Islam or Christianity.
You will find the truth in yourself but only under the condition that you are what you are and not a “secondhand” being that cannot think for herself.
Fight yourself free Noor!
JJ.Rousseau
January 28, 2011 at 9:32 pm
On the day of judgement you will find that Allah exsit than it will be too late to change your fatew which will be hellfire.
Brian C. Hoff
January 29, 2011 at 3:15 am
He must be pretty young, as the older you get the less do you worry about what other people think. He will have to sometime in the future tell his parent that he is convertingt to Islam.
Brian C. Hoff
February 10, 2011 at 6:27 am
Noor,
Many, consumed by passion and deficient in religion as a result, have throughout the ages twisted and stretched Koranic verses and invented “Authentic Hadiths” to suit their own agendas.
It is clear that it is forbidden to forbid what is not forbidden.
There is no explicit prohibition. God gave you a mind. The intentions of those who invent rules should therefore be clear to you.
The innovators who have turned Islam into a prison rule book have very little understanding of the religion they profess to follow. How do you identify an innovator? He is generally the one who is accusing everyone he disagrees with of being an innovator…
Good luck
The Oracle
February 11, 2011 at 2:48 pm
I change my mind with the hostile Islamoprobic racist with the faulire of the federal court to deal with these hate speech from then, muslim female can only marry than muslim man. If than woman who convert to Islam have than hushand who refuse to convert at all the muslim community must help her get than divorse from the unbeliever who is mostly like than Islamoprobic racist.
Brian C. Hoff
January 29, 2011 at 3:12 am
Oh Brian C. Hoff,
Your hatred will lead to nothing but self destruction. Your bigotry will lead to nothing but more islamophobia. Your threats of hellfire are driving an ever increasing number towards the conclusion there must be something fundamentally wrong with Muslims.
Repent, for the hour is nigh…
The Oracle
February 11, 2011 at 2:00 pm
I than not filled with hatered at all. First Islamoproblic will exsit no matter what I say about then you unbeliever think.Believe it if than woman who is married convert to Islam and the hushand refuse to do so after than reasonable amount of time past the muslim community must help her get than divorse from her hushand.
Brian C. Hoff
February 12, 2011 at 3:39 am
The muslim woman helping me to find wife told me as than hushand ALLAH hold me respond for my wife wearing the Hijah in public. I e-mail her back saying ALLAH only exsept the man to use word to make her wear never to use force like breating her up the Koran doesnot allow wifebreating or murder her for not wearing it.
Brian C. Hoff
February 12, 2011 at 3:47 am
Oh my, thank you soo much :]
Noor
February 7, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Who are you replying to Noor.
Brian C. Hoff
February 8, 2011 at 3:55 am
There is of course a way to follow only what is specifically prescribed in the Koran regarding marriage to non-Muslim men:
“The adulterer may marry only an adulteress or an idolatress; and the adulteress may marry only an adulterer or an idolater…” [24:3]
In other words, if it is true that she cannot normally marry a non-Muslim, then all the Muslim girl needs to do is sleeps with her non-Muslim boyfriend, and then she is explicitely permitted to marry him…
So if the traditionalists and the “weight of the consensus” are right, then the following happens when a Muslim girl marries a non-Muslim man:
- a civil marriage takes place (since a religious one is impossible)
- this marriage is not valid, therefore as soon as it is consumated the spouses are adulterers
- as soon as they are adulterers, then it becomes possible for the couple to be married – noone can then object to an Islamic ceremony taking place…
The Oracle
February 11, 2011 at 7:02 pm
There needed to be 4 witness to the same Adulter act and they must be muslim men or women in good standing. Also since they are married cicilo by the state they cannot be adulters at all. It than woman who is married convert to Islam but her hushand doesnot they are still married untril than divored is granted to her by than civil court in america.
Brian C. Hoff
February 12, 2011 at 3:26 am
It is up to the Islamist community to decide it they want to marry then or not to marry then since they are filling out than marry legal agreement and state lience form.
Brian C. Hoff
February 12, 2011 at 3:51 am
Actually Brian, they don’t necessarily need 4 (muslim) witnesses to the act of adultery if they openly stated to the world that they had slept together, or just presented photographic evidence.
Linda
February 20, 2011 at 4:44 am
The QUAN say they needed 4 muslim witness are needed then 4 muslim witness are needed.Stated to the world mean nothing as they can be lying about slereping together and photographic evidence willnot do either.The evil Serb try to get one private in they military to plead guielty to all the crime the SERB did the Court threw the plead out saying that they donot believe one private did all warcrime and rape alone.
Brian C. Hoff
February 20, 2011 at 12:12 pm
[...] http://goatmilkblog.com/2010/08/24/muslim-women-should-be-able-to-marry-non-muslim-men-the-goatmilk-debates/ [...]
Are Muslim Women Allowed to Marry Non-Muslim Men? by Becky « Metis' Blog on Muslim Feminists
April 20, 2011 at 11:28 am
I wonder if the recent scandal will give some new life to this thread? Some people are probably saying “I told you so”.
abdul-halim
June 8, 2011 at 5:14 am
Those who are saying “I told you so” are following a logical fallacy: that Muslim men never lust or cheat on their wives. If one can prove that Muslim men are perfect husbands, then I may consider the “i told you so logic.” But considering that I know many Muslim men who are cheaters and fornicators (sex before marriage), I highly doubt anyone can provide sufficient proof of a Muslim husband’s divine perfection.
MahaMuslimah
June 8, 2011 at 7:09 pm
I have sufficient proof that muslim husbands have NO divine perfection. I know MANY husbands who mistreat their wives, mentally, physically and emotionally because they are not truely God loving/fearing. God is the Most Just, He is the Creator of ALL, so when stupid/ignorant people only consider muslims by label, He must be laughing because obviously God Consciousness are only for the wise. Judgement is for Allah because people have no knowledge of the unseen. Don’t be arrogant people, we don’t know who can be ending up higher rank in Allah’s eyes regardless of what you are born as…
Islam
June 8, 2011 at 8:56 pm
First it is than scandal because the GOP make it one as they hate liberal,and muslim.
Brian C. Hoff
June 16, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Also, if you people read the Quran, it always talks about believers versus unbelievers. There is a sura that says that if you dont accept one God, the angels, the bookSSSS, the prophets and you make distinctions between them, then you can be to blame as well. Regardless every time it says only Allah is All knowing. If you are arrogant and think you can judge all people without being humble, you should take a good look at your heart and repent to your Creator before pointing fingers.
Islam
June 8, 2011 at 9:00 pm
Also, may I add, Sura 2:232:”And do not prevent them from marrying persons of their choice. This instruction is for all among you who believe in Allah and the Last day..”
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)
“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)
“The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim the Message.” (Quran 5:99)
Islam
June 8, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Some have doubted the wisdom of the Islamic scholars on the prohibition of Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men. I think that the episode between Anthony Weiner and Huma Abedin has proven that they are ABSOLUTELY correct. We should not forget that the Muslim scholars are more knowledgeable on Islam than a Muslim that has not had their scholarly training.
munir
June 8, 2011 at 11:09 pm
Are you saying Muslim men don’t cheat on their wives nor have inappropriate relationships?
MahaMuslimah
June 8, 2011 at 11:35 pm
What about muslim women who cheat on they hushand also.
Brian C. Hoff
June 9, 2011 at 1:30 am
@brian, exactly. some people live in outer space, i think.
MahaMuslimah
June 9, 2011 at 1:34 am
Like I said, I have experience with being married twice, blindly arranged once, and second was still the islamic way, did not get to date, had to make up my mind after 1 month of talking on the phone. Well, I have seen my share of mistreatment from a muslim husband. Unless u say all men are not worthy to be married to, then why did Allah give us the choice to marry men in the first place when there are so many problems with men in general. (I am not sexist, just making a point) I can understand it being mukhru but come on, haram? Allah will account the people that make up their own judgements for people that could end up ruining people’s lives. If I was to marry a nonmuslim, and stay strong in the right path, someone prohibiting me will answer to Allah on something that was none of their business.
Islam
June 9, 2011 at 2:39 pm
My ex-wife who wasnot muslim yhan I wasnot muslim but christian as my ex-wife was christian treat me badly posible murdering my baby girl by her just to spike me. It isnot only muslim who have this proble. Her muedering the baby was the turning point in her divorse from me she won than great victory against me who was unable to defence myself when her lawyer fround out what she did he ask the court on closeing the case to reopen case than it was reopen for six month very judge in the court where anger at her for what she did to the baby that the entire divorse agreement was rewritten to be more fravorable to me she was asking for 4500 than month support payment I only make 11,000 dollar than year the court reduce it to zero support as she make 50,000 dollar than year.
Brian C. Hoff
June 9, 2011 at 2:57 pm
I believe in the Quran, Allah, Judgement day, Hereafter, the Books, the Messengers, I established regular prayer (devoted in prayer to Allah), give charity, fast, and I do accept that we are all made differently, for different purposes in life, different views and Allah created us that way, each of us have different talents..and in the end my life showed me there is no valid reason for anything that happens, its all Allah’s will and being humble I accept we know nothing each of us compared to Him…so we leave each person to their own way in life, just as it says in the Quran and the last messenger of Allah has guided us to believe. How do we know that if one marries a nonmuslim, that he ends up learning about Islam and the children become in the right path which may not have been if they didnt marry a muslim? Lets not forget, there are many other messengers that came, do we follow their teachings? There are a lot of good things that Allah sent us..dont be blind..we are muslims: (definition: those that submit to one God, not to people) O people, use your God given brain. !!
Islam
June 9, 2011 at 3:09 pm
By the way, is there anyone who will support me in marrying me to a nonmuslim, but marry me with a nikkah, the islamic ceremony? I dont know any imams, but if someone could help me because I am a muslim with all the right intentions and actions and if I marry a nonmuslim, its unfair that I dont get to have an islamic ceremony because I live in the way of Allah
Islam
June 9, 2011 at 3:12 pm
I’m not sure I understand. For an Islamic marriage you basically need a marriage offer, acceptance, and a sufficient number of witnesses. And then it would be customary to have a contract and a mahr. But you don’t really need an “imam” to “marry you” to the other person. It doesn’t need to be in a masjid. No clergy of any kind has to be involved. Everything else is basically cultural and you can do whatever you want.
http://www.zawaj.com/
abdul-halim
June 14, 2011 at 3:17 am
why don’t you contact your local church after all you are marrying a christian. your marriage should be valid in christianity too:)
Muhammad1982
July 24, 2011 at 2:05 am
If you are in USA then there is one IMAM who conducts interfaith marriage for muslims (including women). His name is khaleel mohammed, professor of San Diego university. Just do a google search, you will find his contact information. He is good in responding.
TruthSearch
February 22, 2012 at 7:26 am
asalaamalykum. sisters who think it is ok to marry non muslim let them. why force them to do other wise it is there choice ie like it is the choice of a muslim to follow 100% or 94% its simple the ground rules are there dont get it tiwisted folks there is only one way your choice.
be warned we have and enemy much clever than a woman who marrys a non muslim this is the usual side track wake up sisters and brotheres this is a secular debate
the Shaytan and his minions are “whisperers”, who whispers into the hearts of men and women, urging them to commit sin let alone this subject those with iman stay away
and pl pl folks understand me/my wife are muslim. Panama and Pakistan mA wake up
Agent no 09
June 13, 2011 at 11:18 am
Warning: Satan’s Minion Whispering:
Yes, @Agent no 9. Let them choose….but let’s warn them that they will burn in hell for it! o0o0o0o
[Shhhh! Let's scare Muslim women into believing they will burn in hell eternally for NOT marrying the fantastical Muslim men of this world. If they dare be so disobedient as to choose a non-Muslim for the sake of love, support, companionship, and children, then let them CHOOSE (choose hell, of course).
We both know that only Muslim men are good.]
Carin
July 7, 2011 at 1:46 am
Carin…I know right, if they believed in Allah, the One Most Just, Most Gracious, Most Powerful God, they would realize that being labeled a “muslim” is not only Allah’s creations…Allah created everyone and only HE knows who will go to hell or heaven…I guess Allah is testing these people brains as well..not everyone was created with the beautiful knowledge and wisdom and Allah tests those people as well….How dare people think that women will burn in hell just for marrying another creation of God who could be a better husband, father and person in front of Allah. There are the unseen people, don’t forget. Not everything is visible.
Islam
July 7, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Thats what I concluded, while trying to learn more of why we do what, but I wanted someone else to conclude this as well…But I want to do something for my parents, such as have an imam or someone scholarly or some support who they would trust more than random people..i also needed this kind of statement that most of what is done is cultural and not the only islamic way of doing things..thank you.
Islam
June 14, 2011 at 6:21 pm
oh you disagree that there will be more women in hell than men? right. Have you read about the journey of Prophet pbuh toward heaven n hell. Shab-e-mairaj? I guess not; you were busy looking for a non-Muslim husband for you right?
Muhammad1982
July 24, 2011 at 2:10 am
women are their own worst enemy. including me. And for heavens sake people, stop referring Allah as He.or His…can’t we just call God, God or The Divine One or something alot nicer?
liberalsistah
September 15, 2011 at 2:29 am
I’m confused as hell. 1. The entire crux of your argument is based on one ambiguous scholar’s opinion who you regard as the minority 2. You say it’s fine to marry people of the book: Jews and Christians, since they are not polytheists, but this is no longer the case with the vast majority of (Western) ahl-e-Kitab.
Sarah
July 14, 2011 at 8:45 pm
Sarah, 1) the “entire crux of my argument” is based on my thoughts and research thus far, as I see blatant flaws in the traditional argument that is put forward by most imams. Thankfully, God gave me a brain and I try to use it from time to time rather than following whatever or whoever is regarded as popular opinion. 2) Hopefully, you notice that this simply a blog debate reflecting the conversations that occur routinely in our communities. As such we each presented a side within a limited word-space. This conversation is not all encompassing, nor is it meant to be. After all the sides were presented I even added an addendum in the comments to briefly address points I thought did not get presented at all, but are examples of points to consider. In case you were not able to find this in all the comments, I am reposting it here:
“This is only the beginning of a discussion. By no means is my piece a be-all and end-all answer. AltMuslimah (www.altmuslimah.com/a/b/rsa/3948/) picked up this debate as well. So I took the liberty of adding an Addendum there, which I thought to add here. Hopefully, that alleviates some concerns, and further demonstrates the need of in-depth scholarship to bring clarity in this area.
***Addendum***
Salaam all,
I wanted to follow up with a mini-addendum to this article. Since the original post on http://www.goatmilkblog.com I received much feedback, mostly positive, some negative. I want to address some concerns brought up and point out other areas of research that should be explored.
First off, some have expressed concern about discussions of such topics by non-scholars and the risk of readers accepting an opinion as if it were a fatwa. I think each of us adequately expressed that we are not scholars. We were each exploring the development of one side of the issue and were limited in our word count. The debate style is simply to facilitate discussions that are already occurring in the community. Articles such as these are not meant to provide one-stop-shop answers or fatwas, we can only give readers a reference points to explore. It is up to the reader to investigate the issue further and make a well-informed decision on his or her life choices.
Second, should any of the readers be interested in exploring this issue further, I would like to briefly touch upon a few points that have not been brought up by the other debaters here:
1) We are taught that men and women are equal but have “rights” over one another when pertaining to certain issues. Thus, the underlying issue here, in my opinion, is whether women and men have equal rights when it comes to their options for marriage. For those who accept that they do not, the discussion is moot. They believe that there is an inherent inequality in marriageable options for men and women, and that this notion is founded in Islamic text. Those who do not agree with the aforementioned premise are trying to understand the accepted Islamic tradition of this inequality, why it exists and whether it is an accurate interpretation of Islamic text.
2) There are, however, some who argue that the equality does exist, just not as traditionally accepted. They define this equality by prohibiting both men and women from marrying non-Muslims (kitabiyya included). This is for several reasons, such as: a) the definition of kitabiyya only pertains to Muslims, b) even if kitabiyya did pertain to Jews and Christians before, the deviation of these groups from certain key Islamic principles make this definition invalid today.
3) One other point of contention is Surah Al-Mumtahanah (http://www.quran.com/60). This Surah is often misread/misinterpreted when used on a variety of issues. The reason for this may be due to lack of Arabic skills and background knowledge. Still, the gravest error made with this Surah and many others is taking ayats or parts of ayats while disregarding the rest. For example, 60:1 revealed during a time of particular tribulation, tells believers not to take Allah’s enemies (disbelievers) as allies at a time of war. 60:7, then states that Allah might turn your enemies into your allies, and that He is most forgiving and merciful. So one can see how 60:1, if taken out of context, can ignore the true message at hand.
60:10 is sometimes used in the marrying/not marrying non-Muslims debate as evidence that women may not marry non-Muslims, Jews and Christians included. The ayat speaks of those converting during this time of contention for the community (at times this would be in secret or at a risk to them). It says that when these believing women come to the believing men, the believing men should not send them back to the disbelievers as they are no longer regarded as lawful for them (in marriage). Those arguing against women marrying non-Muslims, stop here. But this seems to be a major error, as the ayat continues and states that the believing men should not hold on to their marriage bonds with disbelieving women.
So several questions arise from ayat 60:10 – a) which disbelievers are being spoken of and under what context? b) how does this ayat contribute to the debate over the meaning of kitabiyya? c) if this ayat can be used to demonstrate that women are explicitly prohibited from being married to any non-Muslims, then does this not explicitly prohibit men from doing the same, thus, demonstrating equality?
I explored the popular argument in my original article and the loopholes in this reasoning because I felt it was a good start to such a discussion. I would also like to point out that we, as Muslims, are instructed as to the qualities to seek prospective spouses. These qualities are expected, ideally, to be inherent in a Muslim. Therefore, as I mentioned in my article, it seems quite clear for many reasons why marrying a non-Muslim, even a Christian or Jew, would be strongly discouraged for women or men. But the popular argument as to why it is prohibited for women does not provide an adequate explanation. This means, if there is a “yes” or “no” answer on this issue, the opinion has not been fully formulated for the masses. It is understandable that the popular opinion was accepted by all schools of thought, because men often traveled and needed more marriageable options, while women did not, and by living primarily in Muslim societies did not find a need to explore the issue further. This is simply not the case for many young Muslims today living in non-Muslim societies. This is forcing many to act as they deem appropriate despite the confusion.
Ultimately, this all demonstrates a need for further scholarly exploration of all aspects of the issues to determine a) whether Muslim women and men have equal options when it comes to choosing a partner in marriage and b) what these options are and the standards accepted.
Insha’Allah, that clears up some confusion as to the nature and purpose of this discussion and provides some relevant reference points for exploration. As always, Allah knows best.”
Nadia
July 14, 2011 at 9:10 pm
All scriptural writings are allegorically, analogically and symbolically written to define the Nature of the Human Consciousness.
This Quranic Verse is to be translated as follows:
Quran 2:221: A maidservant who has faith is better than an unbeliever,
even though you may be strongly attracted to her. Women, don’t marry
men who make partners with God until they believe. A servant who has
faith is better than an unbeliever, even though you may be fond of
him. The influence of unbelievers will lead you to the Fire, while God
calls you to the Garden and to his own Forgiveness. He makes His
verses clear to people so that they may bear them in mind.
A maidservant is a slave of desires. Faith is having experiential knowledge of Truth. An unbeliever refers to the EGO..(One who is Ignorant of Truth Love and Beauty-Psychologically blind to reality). Making partners with God means to worship that which is materialistic..Money, Careers or acts that will initiate Pride, Greed and Jealousy. Association with Selfish Desires (EGO -unbeliever) will lead you to the Fire. The Fire is Pain and Suffering (Hell). While God calls you to the Garden…the Garden refers to your inner divinity..Your Monad-House of bliss, where justice and mercy resides)..where you seek your forgiveness – detachment from Selfish desires. Bear them in mind means to be conscious of your thoughts from moment to moment.
Astarte
July 21, 2011 at 5:18 am
Astarte, beautiful. Thank you.
Islam
July 21, 2011 at 6:02 pm
“A maidservant who has faith is better than an unbeliever!”
Once again a proof of the intolerance,arrogance and narrowmindness of Islam.
Why always that distinction between the good and bad ones, we Muslims are the good ones and the other the unbelievers are the bad ones, why the distinction between Muslims and non Muslims?
All humans are equal.
Allah, the Christian God, Appollo, Amon Re are all human inventions: they simply doesn’t exist.
Be free, think free!Think and decide for yourself.
Take your own decissions, do not rely on texts of Medieval books or “interpretations” of Priests or Imams.
JJ Rousseau
July 22, 2011 at 9:49 am
JJ Rousseau, what Astarte was trying to say, is that there is an allegorical meaning behind it. “a maidservant” is actually meaning a slave of desires..could be a christian, muslim, any faithful person who controls their desires and is a good servant in this world. Maybe some people believe nothing exists..but there are unknown things we don’t know, which even those ppl who believe in nothing must accept, we don’t have knowledge of everything. What astarte is trying to say, is that muslims have taken one sentence without analyzing with the wonderful brain that we were given and misrepresented it. All humans are equal. And it even states in the Quran not to make distinctions…but humans have a lot of errors in making their own opinions and only relying on their own brains and not seeing the vast world…
Islam
July 22, 2011 at 7:00 pm
So JJ, what I am trying to say is, people are narrow minded, arrogant, intolerant..not Islam. If you read the Quran and analyze, it is not unfair, very open to all of mankind. Yet people don’t interpret the Arabic properly. Its like the literature in English. There are allegorical parts..Not everything in this world is visible. Can you see the cells in your body? Can you see the DNA? How did you know that there are other galaxies? Acceptance of the unknown, or that we don’t know and see everything is the most important thing. Its the basics.
Islam
July 22, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Subhan Allah, May Allah (swt) have mercy upon our Ummah. (Amin)
Muhammad1982
July 23, 2011 at 3:42 am
“O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealings and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just, that is next to piety. Fear Allah, indeed Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.” (5:8) At the end, I think you should watch out for yourself my dear just righteous brother
islam
July 24, 2011 at 5:38 am
But it was not Allah ‘ s purpose that your faith should be in vain , for Allah is full of pity , Merciful toward mankind . 2.143
Allah says: “And when you speak, then be just, though it be (against) a relative.” [Sûrah al-An`âm: 152]
It is wrong for a person to accuse anyone else of something wrong except with full knowledge and tangible proof. It is forbidden to base a judgment against someone on hearsay, conjecture or suspicion.
Allah says: “O you who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest you harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what you have done.” [Sûrah al-Hujurât: 5]
He also warns us: “O you who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a sin.” [Sûrah al-Hujurât: 12]
[49:11]“O ye who believe! let not one people deride another people, who may be better than they, nor let women deride other women, who may be better than they. And defame not your own people, nor call one another by nicknames. Bad indeed is evil reputation after the profession of belief; and those who repent not are the wrongdoers.”
Nisa {4:58}
“Verily, Allaah commands that you should render back the trusts to those, to whom they are due; and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Verily, how excellent is the teaching which He gives you.”
etc…
Also brother, I believe you should read….remember IQRA?? with wisdom, with understanding of Allah’s capabilities in this world…Are u saying Noah was not muslim because he didnt say shahada? really….define muslim please. do you know the purpose of faith and religion? And lets not be a disgrace to the beauty of representing our last prophet who was so tolerant.
islam
July 24, 2011 at 5:53 am
Dear Islam,
Do you also have own thoughts, own ideas about what is going on in the world?
For every problem you apparently have to look in a kind of receipt book to know what to do or to ask and pay for fatwa’s or counseling.
It is clear you are a second hand thinker without any personal approach.
Be free! Think for yourself!
JJ.Rousseau
July 24, 2011 at 12:01 pm
Since when is referencing/quoting other texts considered intellectual slavery?? Supporting another text or agreeing with someone’s precedent is not equal to narrow-mindedness, nor is repeatedly bleating “Be free! Be free!” some sort of mark for intellectual freedom…
Would you call Einstein an “un-free thinker” for agreeing with much of Kepler’s previous work?
Dunked
February 23, 2012 at 7:24 am
You are so correct when I e-mail my mosque BOD about donot trust the FBI I sent attachment of news article of the illegaql action of the FBI as report in the media. Newton phyis wasnot that far off on dealing with earthly speed like no where near the speed of light.
Brian C. Hoff
March 7, 2012 at 7:45 pm
JJ you have a good mentality, but I respectfully disagree and do think for myself, I just have to have those receipts for the kind of people who show me receipts or even do not find any receipts but that only act as a parrot in matters that should require more justice. don’t you think since so many do that and call it the faith of islam when in fact it is more their opinion?
islam
July 24, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Ladies and gentlemen it is not up to us to make halal what Allah SWT has made haram to our messenger (PERIOD). These are not OUR rules, or OUR PROPHET’s rules, these are Allah SWT ruels. There were instances where the Prophet SA acted in such a manner in which Allah SWT actually forbade him to act a certain way (ie praying for non-Muslims salvation AFTER they died).
Last but not least the emotional and psychological justification I see that a lot of women pass is “but Muslim men date outside their religion” Would you jump off a bridge if I did as well? I think not. I personally don’t think Muslim men are, in contemporary society where Christans ascribe partners to God and Jews have bi’dah, allowed to marry non-Muslim women of ahl al Kitab. But realistically look at the Muslim men who do so, they find them in an unIslamic way, have a physical relationship before marriage 99% of the time (whereas in the ‘typical’ view of such a relationship the Christian/Jewish woman MUST BE chaste…yeah right not in a post 60s America) and you know what usually happens in the end? IT DOESN’T WORK. The couple splits over religious differences or doesn’t raise kids with any sort of solid identity.
Find a good Muslim professional mid stream guy. I always hear particularly desi and Arab women complain that there aren’t enough of them (I’m half Egyptian and Half Pakistani Pashtun)…ladies there are plenty and more out there than there are women, you just need to find them in your social circle. A part of the reason why the above marriages fail while Muslim marriages succeed is becasue the expectations of mannerisms and upbringing are excellent among Muslim couples (ie lowering your gaze, not having to worry about a cheating spouse in a good Muslim-Muslim marriage, the expectation that the man is the provider and the woman is a nurturer)
Don’t limit yourself and build up the stereotypical image of ‘the Muslim man’ it’s ridiculous and not true. Muslims are spread across the globe and are diverse as any other society. What if I had said “Come to my house for some Muslim food” you would find it ridiculous, I do too.
MA Khan
July 30, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Last time I checked, rules are based on books. Books are open to interpretation. Stop speaking for God and Islam. People are entitled to decide for themselves how they interpret their religion.
Carin
August 1, 2011 at 12:20 am
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2267&CATE=10
Google
August 8, 2011 at 3:34 pm
I know I’m a bit late but why do we tend to gloss over the fact that the quran clearly states muslim MEN are NOT allowed to marry non muslim women in non musl countries
gj
August 9, 2011 at 2:34 am
GJ, I’m sorry to inform you, the quran does not clearly state that its forbidden for muslim men to marry non muslim women. If you read clearly, it says about polytheists. why would Allah tell all mankind (the Quran is for mankind) to not marry another of His creations? When clearly, there are many issues you are not aware of. You cannot make haram up. Only Allah is the most knowledgeable, the most Just.
Islam
August 10, 2011 at 2:39 pm
One day I will visit a mosque, and observe the people in the mosque, and I will see how good are they really are. May peace be with you.
daniel
August 16, 2011 at 4:55 am
First muslim are just plain people who have the same weakness as other people. Last week our BOD at the mosque make than ruleing that ban childern from playing in the mosque prayer room, it was widely misunderstood and citizise. First we have than Islamist school from pre k to 2nd grade childern needed to run and make noise after being still and quit in the class room for two hours. The BOD are forming than study comittee to hand it. Adult forget they where kids who ran around makeing noise when they where young thenself. I havenot forgotten that as I than 61 year old. The muslim childern are the future of the muslim community which mean we needed to tolance some running around and noise from childern.
Brian C. Hoff
August 16, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Daniel, peace be with you as well!
Islam
August 16, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Salams Sister Islam,
What happened to your marriage; just interested. Did you find any Imam to read your Nikkah with your Christian man? I hope you don’t mind me asking.
Peace
James82
August 29, 2011 at 4:24 am
I will be looking into that soon, no hurry
islam
August 30, 2011 at 1:12 am
Good luck:) Eid Mubarak as well.
May I know what have you discussed with this man in prior to marriage regarding your children and religion sister? I am just curious if I find any sister in such situation; so I can give her advice. You don’t have to go in details just a few pointer if you could. I am sure sister that you definitely must be taking some precautionary measures since you are going against the stream and taking a step which is neither allowed nor prohibited in Quran. How is your family toward you close and extended one after you have decided to take this decision?
Wasalam and peace:)
James82
August 30, 2011 at 8:47 pm
Good luck and Eid Mubarak sister:)
May I know what have you discussed with this man in prior to marriage regarding your children and religion sister? I am just curious if I find any sister in such situation; so I can give her advice. You don’t have to go in details just a few pointer if you could. I am sure sister that you definitely must be taking some precautionary measures since you are going against the stream and taking a step which is neither allowed nor prohibited in Quran. How is your family toward you close and extended one after you have decided to take this decision?
Wasalam and peace:)
James82
August 30, 2011 at 8:48 pm
In my own opinion and the way I have taken..is to show him what my religion is, show him all the things that God has taught for all mankind and why..now he really appreciates the religion and sees the benefits and knows me as a person who wants my children in a good path, worshipping God in good ways. He appreciates it and with time I have told him its important that I bring them up muslim bc as a mother, caretaker its important for me to instill those important things. He agrees and he wants the same for his children, someone who teaches the right way and he supports the rituals although he is more spiritual and wants to teach the morals and values which are the same. It takes time. First one has to trust you, to do that, they observe your actions, behaviour and beliefs. If they trust you, its fine. Thats why its important for us women to be good examples of true Islam, what God would want for all time, all people. Peace!
islam
August 30, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Jazak Allah for the reply sister. I hope you enjoyed you Eid sister and where did you celebrate; I mean which country?
Subhan Allah, here I asked you for advice yesterday so that if in case i have to help another sister. We received a question from an Arab sister who go married to a non-Muslim (now claims to be Musliim) US born man in US. She asked for advice as he is not practising and only converted for the purppose of marrying her.
I am glad that you are taking all the right steps:). Sister! if he finds Islam to be the right religion then why doesn’t he convert; sure it will take time but don’t you think that it will be worth it. Since, only problem here is about religion; so you can teach him more and wait for him to convert. I am glad about what you have discussed with him regarding children upbringing masha Allah.
Also, like I asked before what is the reaction of your parents, siblings, friends and distant family members. How is the behaviour of people around you; if you live in a Muslim populated area/country (I guess you live in US). Also sister, did you try to marry a Muslim man again (as I read in your above comments that you married twice but both marriage failed for some reason and they were both Muslims). Were any of the Muslim man not interested or was it your own choice to marry non-Muslim for some other reasons (which if you could explain would be great).
Looking forward to your respone insha Allah:)
Wasalam and peace:)
James82
August 31, 2011 at 9:24 am
Yes, it takes time to convert someone who knows the basics of Islam and agree but he doesnt see reasons to have to convert since I am the first muslim he knows and he agrees with my faith and the beliefs and since he has the same, he feels we are the same, but doesnt understand why there are so many rules. He feels like he follows the true guidance and does the right things and doesnt understand why people have to convert if they are following the same paths. Humans are a bit complicated. Esp because everyone grew up in a different country. It takes a lot of strength and belief that its necessary to convert esp when you have been living in a mainly nonmuslim world where even if you are nonmuslim, you are one of the best in character, good will, keeping God and faith in all you do..then its hard for that person to believe that he has to convert to be better. Maybe with time, he has only just started to read the Quran in his spare time, hopefully by the end of reading it he will wish to. Even if he doesnt, I see that he’s one in true faith spiritually and practically so I know Allah will be most just to him. I live in a mainly non muslim country and have tried to talk with many muslim men but most of them I wanted to pursue are judgemental or the ones that like me are lacking in many aspects of a husband and father in knowing how to be simple, humble, protective, trustworthy, God loving/fearing, overall in many aspects. The core of a person is more important than the surface. Wasalam, peace.
islam
August 31, 2011 at 8:41 pm
In addition to that, I am starting to teach him, I just know it will take a lot of observance and Insha Allah I believe with all my heart none of my life will have gone to vain. That when you take steps towards Allah, He comes close to you and helps you. So, I will not give up, just will do so with patience and harmony.
islam
August 31, 2011 at 8:45 pm
Thanks for your reply sister. I am glad that you are being patient and waiting for him to convert and then marry him:). My prayers are with you and other sisters who are either single, divorced, separated or in same predicament as yours. Sister, you didn’t reply to one of my question that I put forward in both my comments which was; how is the behaviour of your parents, siblings, distant family and others around you who are Muslims? How many other sisters you know in family, friends or in a network of people who have married outside. I think your relatives should support you. I personally think that if a man is willing to learn and then convert to Islam and wants to marry a Muslimah then Muslim MEN around that Muslimah as relatives such as brothers, uncles, cousins or father should help that man to learn. In turn they are helping their daughter:). May Allah (swt) keep you steadfast on your deen and mould this man’s heart toward Islam so that my sister can marry him and live happily ever after:). Also, sister if you come across any other sister who is going through similar experience please help her guide the man to Islam.
Looking forward to your reply.
Wasalam and peace:)
James82
September 1, 2011 at 10:38 am
Brother, thank you for your kind words. My family and relatives and friends are supportive even though they are conservative. I believe they are because they have seen me go through tough times, they know my intentions were always to be Allah’s way and because they see the person I want to marry being such a great example of a believer, of what Allah wants from a muslim. I know many others that married outside, and since they are kind people, the network is very understanding. Only thing I don’t agree with, is its not fair for him to convert to Islam for the purpose of marriage. I would agree to marry someone first since we are on that path, to marry and that will, with time he will learn more and see on a daily basis since he supports my love of spirituality and to be in Allah’s way. Its not fair for him and Allah did say in the Quran that men can marry people of the book, if Allah would have thought its a problem, why would He say that in the first place. That requires us to make good judgement why He would allow that and what we women have to do if we are married to people of the book. Not only that, Allah mentions in the Quran many many times, the true path, the righteous is the one of Abraham..the Quran is for mankind..Allah is the Creator of all of mankind. I think every person has their own pace and way to Islam, remember, our prophet was not muslim at 5 or 10 yrs..even for him, the angel approached him at 40 yrs old. This is for those that have wisdom. Please do pray for us all..we are struggling to always do for Allah! wasalam peace!
islam
September 1, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Sister whatever I say is my personal opinion. You or any other is not being judged and neither am I stopping anyone or telling them that they are out of fold of Islam. I am not one for judging anyone so I hope our conversation remains civilised and respectful Insha Allah. So please read and forgive me if I have offended you.
Wow sister I am shocked. I was under the impression that you are waiting for brother to convert and then marry him. I understand that it’s common in US, UK, Canada and rest of Europe where a lot of inter-faith marriages are taking place but it’s not advisable at all. We don’t have to follow fatwas, Imam or any other thing; if we just think about our children then we will realise that how much we are losing; unless any Muslim (male or female) is OK to let their children choose their own religion or for that matter don’t follow any at all.
I completely understand when you say that “one shouldn’t convert for marriage purposes but such marriages are not allowed in Islam regardless of what Scholars, Mullahs or anyone says or make up from themselves (It’s clear in Quran; now if we twist and turn for our own benefit then we should worry more about our akhirah rather than what people are going to say). What guarantees such conversion after marriage.
“A Muslim girl was in a relationship with a non-Muslim Christian man who simply converted to marry her. After marriage; since this girl was practising to the fullest; he never stopped her but this in turn made him practising Christianity to it’s best. What do you think will happen sister? I personally know cases where a lot of Muslim girls are in such marriages with non-Muslim men who just converted (or in some cases these girl ran away from their parents to marry) for their own convenience. Point is that who they are deceiving? Who knows we go against Allah (swt) and just after some time we pass away. Life doesn’t have any guarantee; or is it?”
I would personally think that I have failed myself if my children don’t grow up as Muslims and it is not easy for either Muslim man or Muslim woman in interfaith marriage to bring them up Islamically especially living in non-Muslim lands. I will tell you sister that I was in a similar situation a while ago with a Christian girl; I was practising; we never kissed; never shook hands and she had clearly changed so much for me especially when I explained what Islam is all about. Believe me it’s too difficult to answer non-Muslim women especially when they see what is happening around the world to Muslim women; they think it’s Islam. We have so much understanding/common that it scares me sometimes to admit that how could a girl be so ideal that I feel like looking into a mirror. I don’t follow idealism/perfection etc etc because no one was/is or ever will be; beauty of humans is that they are imperfect and that’s what keeps them going. I simply didn’t consider her for marriage just based on the fact that she is not Muslim; we are still good friends. Who knows she may convert to Islam if I explain it to her more in detail:). A wife is not just wife; she is a companion who will help me better myself in deen and help me raise our children to become best Muslims and human beings. Have you ever came across the children growing up confused in such inter-faith marriages? May be a few of them become practising Muslim; most are either Athiest, Christians or don’t follow what they find is easy in any religion.
Also, it would be wrong to compare your man with Holy Prophet (PBUH) in the sense that it took time for him to practice Islam; that was divine my sister. Do you think sister that another revelation will come from Allah to guide this brother to Islam? Funny thing is that people start saying things like “but Prophet (PBUH) and Shahaba married people of book”. Simple answer is that Quran was revealed in parts and not everything was instantly made haram. For instance, spirits weren’t made haram straight away but after some time. Similarly, women were still bought and sold and were taken as concubines after Quran/Islam was revealed but then if was made unlawful but polygamy was made halal only to protect women not to marry young girls(I understand that that this institute is abused a lot; we can write pages and pages on that and yes men are to blame for all this).
Ideally men in your family as brothers, cousins, father, uncle should have taken the responsibility of teaching this brother about Islam which would have been a lot more effective alongside your help. I know a sister who was attracted to a non-Muslim man (don’t know that religion) and he liked her too; they started to get to know each other and decided to get married. When he popped the question; she said that I am Muslim and can’t marry anyone except Muslim man; only was we can marry is if you convert to Islam. Subhan Allah, he was true and sincere and said;
“I want to be honest with you that I will convert but I will convert only if Islam makes sense to me after my own reading not just to marry you.”
You see sister; had he been fake he would have said OK what’s harm in saying a few words but not believing them in heart and not following religion truly. Now brother of this sister is helping that man to study Islam and if he comes up with any question; he helps him understand by answering him to the best of his knowledge:).
SISTER PROBLEM IS THAT OUR SISTERS ARE LEFT VALNERABLE AND THESE SO CALLED SCHOLAR/MULLAH AND EVEN PARENTS DON’T HELP THEM AND PUSH TO COMMIT SINS. It hurts to the current state of Ummah and seeing these ignorant bastard doing nothing. Look at the divorce rate in Ummah; how difficult the whole process of marriage has been made. Our parents, and these so called religious scholars/Mullahs and Ulama should have gone extra mile to help the Ummah especially when living in West but they simply ignore because they are too busy fighting each other.
Also sister, I forgot to reply to your point you made such as;
“I live in a mainly non muslim country and have tried to talk with many muslim men but most of them I wanted to pursue are judgemental or the ones that like me are lacking in many aspects of a husband and father in knowing how to be simple, humble, protective, trustworthy, God loving/fearing, overall in many aspects. The core of a person is more important than the surface”.
I couldn’t agree more with what you said but question is that are all the Muslim husbands who are married to Muslim women are perfect. How many of them have you met in your life; how many Muslim women you know who are happy in their marriage? Besides, are non-Muslim men perfect? absolutely not. Men are men and women are women; culture, background, religion, society, status doesn’t matter. People change especially in marriage which is life long commitment and we wake up with same person everyday and share so much then it really becomes a test. LOVE DOESN’T CONQUER EVERYTHING ALWAYS SISTER. Here I am speaking as an observant not being a MUSLIM MAN DEFENDING THEM; only if you could believe me. Look at the family structure of West. What role non-Muslim parents are playing today as mother and father. Are you saying sister that their is no difference left in how Muslim couple bring up their children up as compared to non-Muslims. Sure things are not perfect but still things are not that bad and our family system is still way better then non-Muslims. It deteriorating and not improving but not at a level yet where we say Oh it doesn’t matter.
I wasn’t born here in the West Alhamdulliah but my parents instilled a lot of good moral values in me that I find it hard to find here. I didn’t know that men and women in general and a lot of Muslim among them have extra-marital affairs. Virginity is held so high in the society; girls are not considered suitable for marriage after a certain age or if they are divorced, annulled, separated or widowed then they are looked down upon. Off course, Muslim countries are not ideal but then these societies are not either.
I know a lot of guys who have same complain with sisters and I personally being single find them quite difficult to get along with but still I will marry a Muslim women even if she was MUSLIM BY NAME. Because, I know that a lot of Muslims men and women started practising well into their marriages.
Problem here I see is that we Muslims have started to say if, but, why, maybe stuff and want to change the teachings to fit our demands and needs whereas it was made clear by Holy Prophet (PBUH) in the last sermon that Islam has been completed. Inter-faith marriages don’t succeed mostly and to start with it’s not even sensible to be in one especially in non-Muslim lands. If you read the fatwa of the this ignorant so called scholar then you will realise that he hasn’t made it clear that if it’s HALAL or HARAM but he did agree that it’s MUKRUH for both MEN and women. Besides, what’s the point of such fatwa where every second line finishes with “ALLAH KNOWS BEST”. It’s whole point is to make Ummah more confused; this issue doesn’t even fall in grey area. It’s made clear in Quran; we don’t have to twist it or follow any fatwa whatsoever. Even the question of children’s custody if marriage fails is out of question; for any child both parents are important.
I hope you could understand what I meant sister without taking any offence or bashing me as judgemental. Sorry for long post.
Looking forward to your reply.
Waslaam and peace
James82
September 3, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Brother, salam to you as well. No worries, you havent said anything offensive at all, in fact I actually agree with all you have to say. I do believe its mukru as well, and I can see why. I agree many kids can be confused, and children can be misguided or on the wrong path, just like how I agree regardless of being married to a muslim or nonmuslim, either marriages can fail. I do agree there are more chances and higher risk being with a nonmuslim thats why I never thought of that in the first place all my years before. That doesnt mean, that no interfaith marriages succeed and no interfaith marriages have wonderful children who follow the right path. In fact I have seen what Allah has power to do over different situations, I have seen many muslims who follow the wrong way and don’t know the basics of what Allah asks us to strive for. What is the point in the fasting, the charity the prayer if the muslims don’t become better spiritually for Allah. Also, in my experiences, I have tried to find the root problems of marriages and of children. I have seen interfaith marriages that actually have succeeded bc both parents have the same goal, to raise their children with the right values, the true islamic values that apply to mankind in general. I have seen those kids to be so wonderful that gave me inspiration as somehow Allah has introduced me to a person with all the qualities I was looking for in a husband and father, as a muslim and I love that, and would never give that up for just a label. I want the core of the person to be muslim, to have the qualities that makes a spirit muslim. He is not ritualistic, he is spiritual and has been learning and agreeing with many things. It is only normal to have some fear to make a huge change ritualistically when He feels his beliefs are the same and only holds on to God, not to what people want. You are right, its not right to say words to become muslim for marriage, but its actually a good idea to say that I cannot marry someone unless they become muslim. But growing up in this culture, I know its unfair to portray the religion for mankind as something for certain people only. It should make sense to my fiance. Because even my friends have said that he has all the right qualities, he can completely go the right way as long as he’s not pressured and does it his own time but if he is pushed, I dont want him to turn away bc of people’s impatience. Maybe I am made differently, with more tolerance and feel guiding is a better way then setting restrictions and being more just with people since Allah loves those that are just, not those that oppress..but those that guide. So thats why I tell him I dont pressure him to be something, but I love for him to know and learn and strive for Allah. For me, I do not believe I cannot marry anyone except muslim, since its explicitly ok for men, and it makes sense that he is giving me all rights to raise my kids muslim and then I should show him fairness in our religion, in all I do that he should have no compusion in religion…that I should slowly guide with without pressuring religion on someone when none of my ex’s ever were pressured on anything and they got to live their life whether they prayed or not. but I do agree I only want to marry someone with the right beliefs and attitude for striving for Allah who gives me the motivation to raise my kids just as I wanted. The reason for me I dont feel its mukru, is only because I feel I am a witness of seeing what Allah showed me in my life and then all the important qualities I find in this ‘nonmuslim’ who is more like a muslim, has all the things from my heart that I asked Allah for that I couldnt explain in words to humans, and seems like with time he could convert but regardless has all the same beliefs..so for me, its my answer to my prayers from Allah in the goodness that he has and the striving he does in every aspect. I do agree with your opinions and they are very much valid. But in the end, the biggest lesson I learned, is none of us know the unseen, the things that I have witnessed in my life..so for every person, their decisions will be different based on circumstances. Allah is the only one with me through my life and at the end I know after taking time to know someone well and giving chances on many people, that this is right for me and its not fair for anyone else to judge except Allah on what is right. I cannot pretend and ignore what I see in him is what I want in my life. Hard for human beings to understand unless they have been in my shoes. Compassion is for all mankind, I am sure he and I can be rewarded if we always pray to Allah and have the right actions in life. Marriage is one action that is correct if we care for each other and try in the right path. At this point in my life, I don’t even know if I can have children so for me its more his companionship than anything else. Honestly, in the end, we try our best with our wisdom and always should ask Allah to guide us.
islam
September 6, 2011 at 11:07 pm
Sister Islam what more to say when you agree with whatever I said but still don’t see the point. Besides, to expect and seek Allah’s help/mercy/blessing we must follow his teachings first; taught to us by His beloved Prophet (PBUH) through Quran, Sunnah and Hadith. Your comparison never made sense to me and I can’t say that if there is anything left to explore or twist to fit our own needs. If you or miss Nadia think that you guys know more than what Allah (swt) or still can’t comprehend the reason for this prohibition for inter-faith marriages (men and women); especially in Non-Muslim lands than so be it. Go ahead and do as you please; I hope I don’t get branded here again as judgemental. And like I said before this world is nothing compared to the world we are promised in the hereafter; there may be people who whisper or say things open as in this article to stir up the things between Muslims for their own benefit but we should know what their purposes are. Last but not least sister have you read about Hazrat UMMA SULAIM.
Now please don’t think that I in anyway was trying to defend the actions of what Muslim men do. In fact their loss is greater if we weigh both sides.
May Allah (swt) help you understand his wisdom and follow his guidelines rather falling for the traps of Shaytan and his companions. (Amin)
James82
September 10, 2011 at 11:58 pm
Brother, I understand that maybe you have not interacted with many good nonmuslims, but how can you say there is ‘prohibition for inter-faith marriages (men and women)’ are you ready to take a stand on judgement on that in front of Allah. No where in the Quran does it prohibit it and this is the problem with the world today. No tolerance, no understanding. How about if you believed in Allah and all the prophets, the last day, angels and yet you did not know enough about another book and prophet. Do you think that if you are taking steps to learn without being pushed and you have decided to marry someone who is also a believer that Allah will prohibit you to marry that woman and learn more about the faith that is part of the same chain of what you believe? I do not understand why people have a problem, maybe they are unfamiliar with some people in the world. Not every nonmuslim lives and behaves wrongly, in fact my fiance actually lives in the right way, strives to be the best of humans, in such a humble and simple way just like of our last prophet expects us, better than many muslims. So between having the correct belief and correct actions/behaviour, why do people have such a problem? In fact the reason that I would like to marry him is because the world needs better examples of human beings, of muslims and he is a great example that I know Allah put in my path maybe to show many muslims to not judge by a color of his creations.
islam
September 12, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Sister Islam, Alhamdulliah I have had a lot more contact with non-Muslim than you can think and am still in contact with them since I work with most. Yes, they are not liars, cheats, hypocrites, don’t steal etc etc but this doesn’t mean that I should marry them or tell them to visit the mosque to lecture Muslims about all this. Do you think a person who does all that doesn’t know that it’s wrong or haram whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims? Like I said before that I was in your shoes when I liked a non-Muslim girl and once thought that she might be the one and started comtemplating a woman’s role as a mother and wife in a Muslim family. It was only then; I realised that a Muslim wife is better than a non-Muslim wife even if I have to compromise on a big chunk of qualities I am looking for in a woman to consider as wife.
When you say that if I stand whether there is a prohibition for inter-faith marriages then I must tell you sister that it’s in the same Holy Quran that I read over and over time (in fact some of those are quoted here by Miss NADIA). Yes, MEN ARE ALLOWED TO MARRY PEOPLE OF BOOK but it’s not for today due to a lot of modernisation or innovation in Toorah and Bible. Does that make sense to you and for Muslim women it neither approves nor does Quran dis-approve so, DECIDE FOR YOURSELF but it clearly stats that do not marry non-belivers (now you can choose what constitutes a non-believer EVEN WHEN IT’S CLEAR IN QURAN, HADITH AND SUNNAH). This definitely is the problem with the world when they try to interpret things their own way to make something halal.
Sister, all you have been telling me is that I AM JUDGEMENTAL but I was trying to understand that how you are going about all this and then saying that it’s OK in Islam. Yes, people as a whole are judgemental and that goes for everything not just inter-faith marriages. I have been mentioning from very start that you souldn’t bother about people what they say if you and people close to you are OK with your decision. ONLY CARE FOR ALLAH AND HIS COMMANDEMENTS.
You asked me; how about if I believed in Allah, all the Prophets, the last day, angels and did not know enough about another book and Prophets”. Well then, I will learn further and marry after I say my shahada and Insha Allah will make sure that I do it for Allah (swt) from my heart not to marry a Muslim.
Like I said before sister that I have enough contact with very good non-Muslims who are not into drugs, drinking, gambling, stealing, stealing and list goes on but I can do dawah to them only not marriage before them converting to the true religion. Again, you have brought comparison between Muslim and non-Muslim men; I can say the same for non-Muslim women as compared to Muslim women. Infact, that is the very reason a lot of Muslim brothers I know have been pushed and not either they are married to converts or marry from back home. And the ones far far away from their deen end-up marrying non-Muslim women whether they are chaste, of good character or not. It goes both ways dear sister; if brothers are not saints then sisters are not angels either; it’s debatable:).
Good luck with your life sister; I am sorry that I don’t agree with you when you say that you are marrying him just to set a good example for Muslim MEN.
James82
September 13, 2011 at 4:02 pm
There’s a number of people who say that Non Muslim men marrying Muslim women is prohibited due to patriachal reasons. So far from what I can see and appreciate very much about my religion I believe that is Islam is that 1. The Mother is at least 3 times important as the father 2. A number of our prophets have been brought up by single mothers 3. A marriage can only be given the go ahead with the permission of the bride 4. A Muslim woman does NOT have to change to a ‘married name’ 5. Muslim women have been given access to places of worship, education and employment and even leadership for 1400 years 6.I have never known a Hijab wearer to have an issue with their weight (ok that’s an opinion but how many anoerexic/bullimic Hijab sisters do you know are fretting over fake tans, extensions and eyelashes?) 7. Even if a muslim woman buys a house with her money, it’s HER house and her husband can bugger off and buy his own cos his name’s not on it (hence the pointlessness of a married name, teehee) 8. Men and Women in Islam are as equal as two teeth in a comb. 9. Some of the original Ummah rejoiced when they heard that the way to Islam was by being an obedient wife as they were not educated to do much else (hey early days, what can I say). Others basically kicked butt by collecting a third of the Prophet’s Hadeeths and bumping off enemies on the battlefield 10. The first Muslim was a businesswoman 15 years the Prophet’s senior (and also his wife, may Allah be pleased with her)
And people still think Islam is patriachal?
Something wrong with this picture here…
For the record I have attempted to get to know Muslim men before. after knowing a few who sponged off the family wealth instead of getting a job, one who got into polygamy by marrying a gold digger, one who beat up his girlfriend and started seeing other girls, one who thought it was okay to date and dump girls outside his race and religion because he was in the West, one who married twice then got divorced, one who dumped his wife with six kids and no maintenence money, one who converted just to marry a muslim woman only to make a shit husband, one who left his christian wife stuck with twin boys (they’re also Christian btw), one who married out of his race then started having girlfriends at the same time, one who married a wild Muslim party girl forcing, sorry, encouraging, her to wear Hijab, stay at home and be a good Muslim wife while he went to bars and got pissed on beer, one who went off the rails just because he didn’t have a Muslim male role model (rolls eyes) to the degree of physicvally assaulting his mother and taking drugs…..I kinda decided to just stick to men who did as they were told but still knew how to treat a woman like a lady. All have been none Muslim and are actually scared of the acceptance of the Muslim community and not vice versa. All have seen me pray. All have respected the fact that I don’t drink and have a seperate diet. All have not stopped me from practicing my faith-if there were any flaws or sins they were my own and it was from a lack of disclipline not lack of faith or knowledge of it. I made more effort and felt much prouder to be a Muslim with non Muslims compared to trying to intergrate to a community who would always label me as ‘that woman from a liberal country’ or as a ‘bad muslim’. So regardless of how you may think women of our twisted path may be, your rejection and the support from our Kufr pimps (well how else would you label an Unbeliever) has only made us more determined to follow Islam focussed on other cornerstones of the faith like charity, a successful career, a healthy lifestyle, an education and a MUSLIM upbringing for our children. Before you judge us-get to know us first.
liberalsistah
September 15, 2011 at 2:20 am
what if he’s a Jeddite??? May the force be with us….
liberalsistah
September 15, 2011 at 2:31 am
I was with a Muslim girl for about a year. Everything was going good and I thought she was the one till she told me it would never work out because of her religion. I am christen, and she told me we would never be anything unless I converted. I’ve heard that if she told her parents she wanted to marry a guy that was not Muslim they would disown her…is this true being that her mother is very “old school”. She’s not really into guys from her culture being that all of her bf’s have bEen Christian. So I guess in the end she will have to marry a Muslim man eventually.
nick
September 17, 2011 at 4:57 am
Dear Nick,
this so called “Muslim girl” just tries to have a hold on you by imposing her “religion” on you.
If you concede she is automaticly the boss in your so called mariage.
She clearly does not love you!
The best thing you can do is to forget that girl and to look for a nice girl with a good character who loves to live the real life and not does not dream about dead and afterlife as all those Muslims do.
Allah simply doesn’t exist.All we have is this life on Earth , make the best of it!
JJ.Rousseau
September 20, 2011 at 8:03 am
UPDATE!!!!! Kinda back with this girl, she tells me. She wants to be with my but I think its more of a phisical thing. She seems like she wants a relationship but last time we were together she said it would never work out because of her religon, I care about her very much and I would like to marry her but I don’t think its at all possable unless I convert witch I’m not willing to do….HELP!!!
free yourself from religon and just "love"
November 24, 2011 at 8:52 am
JJ Roussean you are so wrong about that muslim girl. First Islam is base on family so she told him to convert before it went any futher like telling him after they where marry. You must be one of those hater of Islam that is alway attacking Islam and religion in general. Allah does exist.
Brian C. Hoff
September 20, 2011 at 4:58 pm
True to that ! Allah does exist.
nadya
October 17, 2011 at 9:10 am
see Irshad Manji’s Blog on Interfaith Marriage and also Reza Shah Kazemi’s book on ” Common Grounds: Affinity between Islam and Buddhism”
Shafiq Al Rashid
September 22, 2011 at 6:32 pm
M an ISLAMIC girl…bt love a Punjabi Hindu guy..:(
Zoya Shaikh
October 8, 2011 at 2:45 pm
hmm…you have misunderstood, the Qur’an gave Muslim men permission to marry people of the book, but however for example there are certain categories which have to be met, a Muslim man cannot marry someone who thinks that Jesus pbuh is god…rather he can marry women of the ‘original book’ not the distorted bible and torah of today. a person familiar with the previous scriptures in their original form will still hold the views and opinions of the Muslims who are familiar with Qur’an since all the scriptures were sent down by the one god (Allah). the original scripture…only four being named (there were also others) by Allah are zaboor, torah, ingil (bible), and Qur’an….all the previous original scriptures say to expect the last and final prophet of Allah, being Muhammad pbuh, and to follow him upon his arrival. thus being people of the book can be taken as wives since they are in a way ‘pre-muslims’…all the followers of the original books are Muslims, its just each time had different laws that Allah wished for them to follow, once Qur’an is revealed and they learn of it they are expected to follow it, as the time of a new revelation indicates that the old one is outdated…just like each prophet had his followers for that time. the Qur’an is here now so all other scriptures should not be followed as their time has expired. and anyway they have been lost as the languages of the past do not exist anymore unlike Qur’an which was revealed in Arabic and is preserved in Arabic and there is only one Qur’an unlike other scriptures which people have changed the meaning of e.g. in the bible Jesus pbuh says ‘my father is greater than i, my father is greater than all’…’i do not seek my will, but the will of my father’ ‘i of my own self can do nothing’…he is a messenger a prophet of god, not god and does not in the bible ever say out right …’i am god worship me’, rather he says things like ‘ i and my father are one, who ever has seen me has seen my father’ but he does not say he is god, he means him and god are one in mission, if you follow him you will see god. and anyway bible has tonnes of contradictions and there are loads of different versions of bible…meaning it has been changed etc by man.
also only Muslim men have been given this right as when a woman marries she moves into her husband’s home, so his and his family’s values are transferred to her, so a Muslim man will teach her about Islam etc. whereas if it were vice versa the Muslim man would be with a family who are not quite learned about Islam which may cause problem with retaining the correct faith etc.
that being said it does not mean that a Muslim man can go out and just get married to some next Jew or christian before they have reverted to Islam. people of the book…not people of the distorted bible and torah of today….hope i clarified some very important issues. what this sister did is haraam, point blank, end of story…according to Qur’an and sunnah…peace.
lilmuslimah
October 13, 2011 at 1:33 pm
here here mslima well said. Next they will ‘debate’ the inheritance law. Omg then ‘debate’ soon about men sleeping with men, then of people of the book, then incest and lastly beastiality. There is a thin line between imaan and shirk. I would suggest that people dont ‘debate’ islam. If you dont like it, there is no compulsion. Leave. On judgement day you will have to answer. Its liike somebody doing something wrong then blaming shaytaan. So ‘debate/debait’ all you want just leave islam alone. Anyway my two cents. Divorce is quite high in the world. Ask anyone, friends come and go, family will always be there, why alienate your family for someone as the italian, ‘love me for me’ type. Remember they will not be happy for/with you till you follow their ways/beliefs. Anyone following any ‘people’ on the day of judgement will rise with them. Another point, you get black muslims indian muslims white muslims chinese muslims etc, there is no shortage of fulfilling your taste. So why take a risk? Hope i got my point through
bin dead awhile
November 24, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Well said sister, you will see millions of so called hypocrites who misuse, defame, misinterpret Islam. Amazing people are trying to modify Islam and enforce their views.
Azad Ali Shah
November 30, 2011 at 12:35 am
Like they say, there are none so blind as those who will not see.The level of hypocrisy and idiocy is mind boggling..
Sarah
October 15, 2011 at 8:05 pm
This is HORRIBLE.
You do not understand the wording and yet you make such claims.
Muslim women are ONLY allowed to marry Muslim men, this is clear.
We MUST understand the Quran through the holy, pure, perfect, and infallible Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) who himself is the Quran.
Islam forbids a Muslim woman from marrying a Muslim man!
The translation is incorrect. The Quran verse goes much more in to detail than just “polytheist.” We Must understand the Quran properly, NOT just make up what we want!
Ali
October 17, 2011 at 12:05 pm
BTW, if you all really studied the Quran, there is a place where it says men can marry people of the Book, jews christians. So then it says, men should not marry nonbelievers and women should not marry nonbelievers because its best for them. So does that mean men cannot marry ppl of the book? Think. There is a difference between nonbelievers and nonmuslims. The word for nonbelievers in arabic is not jews and christians. It is all dependent on the person’s beliefs.
islam
October 25, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Believing man for believing women only stop twisting word of the Quran
There is not brackets in Quran so we reject the Jew and christen part it is only in translation only by a man who is trying create Corruption on land simple not that hard
S
October 29, 2011 at 11:25 pm
THERE R WHO SAY WE BELIEVE ONLY BY THERE MOUTH BUT NOT HEART
QURAN
S
October 30, 2011 at 12:01 am
Haha, Allah (The One Creator of all of us) has proved you wrong and has proved me right..Everything went so smoothly. Everything. With time my husband has become a muslim. Now that he has read the Quran (on his own) an searched, he became muslim (one who submits to Allah) and I knew that anyone of any background would become muslim in Allah’s eyes if they follow the right path. Just if you are born muslim doesnt mean you live as a muslim. I know many muslims who do everything wrong, and you still think those are the believers? God made examples out of people, my situation has proved it, of marrying a nonmuslim who with time has ‘converted’ but his beliefs were always there of being a believer. So regardless if he was jew or christian (followers of Moses or Jesus), if they have the right beliefs and are presented with Islam, they usually turn to a muslim either by label or by heart. But God shows us that only with time and studying someone can do that, any time in their life and become more knowledgeable than a born muslim. Now read his book.
islam
November 16, 2011 at 8:13 pm
Your husband shouldn’t have to convert to be “excepted” by the family. If two people “love” eachother it shouldn’t matter about religon, its just a cruch, and a control or power trip thing. When he did convert he just let his guard down and gave in. If he didn’t convert he would never be excepted by the family, this is tottaly wrong! Sorry but people take religon to searesly. I think its wrong that somone has to change their religon just to be. “Excepted” to a family, and even if the family prob. Still never likes them if they weren’t born a musium.
free yourself from religon and just "love"
November 16, 2011 at 9:52 pm
I agree, he shouldnt be forced to, but he didnt accept it until he has been reading and researching on his own, with me helping researching the major religions and how it brings everything together..he didnt give in..he just really learned more than whats superficial. I give him more credit bc although muslims dont make sense in some things they say, he ignored that and learned what islam really teaches, not what muslims interpret without regard to humanity.
islam
November 17, 2011 at 2:09 pm
I am italian and white, my Sister married a black man, I know I’m talking about race here but should have somone told her not to marry him becaus he’s black? NO. Just like my ex told me “this will never work out because of my religon” because she Is musim. This is a bunch of bs, if you don’t love me for. Who I am, you can take a hike, I’m not going to change my religon (even though I’m not religuS) just to satify her family…..NO, its so dumb and if you think its not you need to get help, if people love eachother this shouldn’t matter. So muslim wemon go end up marrying a muslim man, not because they love them but because they are muslim, does this sound wright? I think noT. So for all those people that turn down love for religon, I hope. Your family is happy you didn’t marrie out of you religon,and insted of you being happy with somone you love.
free yourself from religon and just "love"
November 16, 2011 at 10:10 pm
The best for you and your husband… let Divine Intervention keep leading your way always… Peace be upon you, your husband and everyone who surrounds you…
One Love
November 27, 2011 at 3:34 am
Congratulations to you sister on your husband’s reversion to Islam:). May Allah (swt) bless you both in this life and in hereafter:). Though we are different in our views on current issue but you are still my sister in faith and I respect that. Only Allah (swt) knows the condition of our heart but I like to follow what is in black and white rather than trying to find the grey areas without being labelled as judgemental or passing judgements. As Quran states clearly who is believer and who isn’t; with whom we can/should marry and can’t/shouldn’t so their is not question of me or anyone issuing fatwas or judgements. So, best of luck with your life, may you find what you couldn’t in born Muslim men:) Amin.
James82
December 1, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Thank you brother, I respect that you follow what is black or white..but not everyone’s life is perfect and there are many people in grey situations..not because they want to be but because they are there, its life. I really believe there is a reason for everything and sometimes Allah wants a certain path for certain people. I believe strongly that my husband prayed strongly and has always been a believer so therefore Allah guided him to the clear path. Life has taught me not to judge by the cover, not to state we are knowledgeable of everything. Only Allah Almighty is the only one who knows all, we can only try. The truth is, we try but grey areas are a part of life..for example, I didnt want to put myself in bad situations years ago but somehow was put there even though I was a strong believer. I had strong faith and still believed there had to be a reason for it all..nothing goes in vain. Humbleness is expected from us. And that goes for all believers as well and thats why I jump on people who might want to judge others. What I find in my husband is the will to be a better person on a daily basis..something I havent found before and I appreciate that. Grateful for your words, thank you. Grateful to all the people who wish peace on others sincerely. Thanks.
islam
December 1, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Also, I believe as muslims we have a greater obligation in life..to portray the faith correctly and for others who need it..just like it is a struggle for non believers to realize there is a God and to worship Him will take you far, muslims have a struggle to be a good model for mankind (in a kind way not aggressive) bc if God is Most Just, we must think of how much dues we have.
islam
December 1, 2011 at 4:54 pm
wait a minute in islam ur not allowed to date
male or female so what is ur point
u just wanted to marry him simple just admit it
why do i have to run around preaching islam to every body while i could b donig something else
prophet moses people were muslims these people follow some body else
s
December 20, 2011 at 11:45 pm
A muslim man or women should be a walking example of the Quran.
i just want to say that i was born and raised in NJ. my parents never taught me anything except for praying 5x daily, fasting and reading the quran. i never read the translation because i never had access to any, until 2 years into my marriage when a relative gave me one. I BASICALLY DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING. i think back now and find that i was a bad muslim example to others around. my parents never forced me to wear the hijab. i started wearing it on my own while i was in my sophmore year at college, influenced by my other muslim women.
my parents found a good muslim man for me to marry at a young age of 20. we were both virgins. he’s 6 years older than me. i wanted a divorce the first five years, i hated him that much after a few months. but now i think we are best together and i wouldn’t have had it any other way. i did not marry for love. i married for understanding and religion. he was not rich. we were both poor after leaving our parents. we both made from scratch and now working our way up. we were both immature and not religious. we are both much mature than we started out and are much more religion orientated i.e. trying to make our five prayers daily and enforcing the same in our children.
I LOVE ISLAM.
SAM who loves ALLAH
October 31, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Very true…. I like ur article… If anything children tend to get their mothers language and belief… As a muslim girl i feel this is discrimination and very sexist
Gol
November 20, 2011 at 12:43 pm
Hello All, Peace be always upon All. If The Creator is Pureness in Action or Love in Action, who is to judge the matters of the Heart?
If my non-Muslim intentions with an incredible young woman from KSA from whom I met playing UNO and what started as a hello, has not ended but gone 3+ yrs and strong all via txt, who is anyone to judge this pure intentions. And seriously what Westerner will chat 3+ yrs with a woman if is not via Pure Love and Intention? And obviously if the Muslim young woman has also enjoy thus far 3+ yrs most be for a reason. So what if she wants to fast, go fast, maybe I join you. So what if you wanna go pray, be my guest, pray for both of Us and the World. What if she wants to cover, hey tell me where I can buy “the sheets” as I jokingly tell her. If this is not Love then what is? You can also say this is a challenge of your faith, of course it is, Life is full of Tests, that’s the idea. Isn’t this a great way to put your faith on test and to see what are your true intentions regarding your beliefs and your understanding of Pure Thought and Intention? (Love)? I mean the name says it all… “In the name of Allah the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate.” … if this Most Merciful and Compassionate Creator cannot or won’t grasp the Pure Love We feel for each other then this Creator is not the Creator. You can judge my heart and my intentions, of which I do not care, for ONLY the Creator and those whom The Creator wishes can see inside my Heart and know my true intentions her true intentions, our True Intentions.
I asked her today the the question of living together. It all boils down to a split heart between her Family and Me. She is willing to live with me abroad with a “yes” and at the same time she doesn’t want to leave her family (let them down or get kicked out of the community). Personally as I told her, I refuse to do anything without her family consent as I see no reason for her not be able to visit her family and have a loving relationship with Me . So I ask you all; what is wrong with this picture? Is the Heart wrong, can it be wrong? Thinking I guess the mind could, the emotions could, but not the Heart. I am convince the Heart is what Unites us with The Creation, hence the Creator and I am willing to put my own Life for Love, for I have nothing else to give but this; LOVE.
One Love
November 26, 2011 at 5:54 am
funny really if as muslim man i am not allowed to even look women(this goes for both muslim and non ), and as as muslims are not even allowed to date so what ur saying is out of the question
so what are u doing with a muslim?
s
December 20, 2011 at 11:52 pm
looking and txting are very different things.
One Love
December 21, 2011 at 7:41 pm
anotherthing
u fasting for her
i do not know this how this works becasue i am fasting becasue of my lord
and we pray to our lord only no body else not us but the creater mate
u do not even know the basic what chance u got to live with her all ur life?
s
December 21, 2011 at 12:01 am
who said “fasting for her” … better re-read. “So what if she wants to fast, go fast, maybe I join you.”
One Love
December 21, 2011 at 7:43 pm
A non muslim man can get married whit a Muslim girl if he converts to the Islam, at this case is permisible, otherwhise is not permisible by the Hadith says i think so.
MKV
December 4, 2011 at 1:12 am
Re: it sent tongues wagging in the Muslim community
Not any more my friend, not after her husband’s shameful scandal hehehehehehe…..
Mohamed
December 4, 2011 at 2:31 am
Well judging from the papers today, Huma Abedin’s relationship seems to already be going downhill, not to say the poor girls pregnant. Was it naivety, or professional progression that led her to marry her colleague, or did she feel that she was getting on a bit? I couldn’t hazard a guess.
I was always taught from a young age that love is often mixed up for lust. Lust should hardly ever come into a relationship, as it is often misleading. Lust often disuses people to make them look better than they really are for you. There are many attractive people out there, intelligent beyond your wildest dreams, show relentless attention / affection towards you, evoking feelings that you haven’t felt before, often leading to a series of heavy thinking and often depression. But in all fairness, that is not a relationship, biologically, as my fiance explains, it’s just a series of defensive neurological chemical substances and reactions that occur being released by your head, making you either succumb to the situation / relationship, or just push it away.
If all you feel is just a series of head numbing events that lock you in a vicious mental cycle that that’s not a prospective relationship, that’s adolescence darling. And of course if your a red blooded male like me, we can quiet often sense it, and take advantage of it. However it is maturity that prohibits me from diving into things like that head first, and also that constant ringing of mother shouting at me not to ruin another girls life, i have good parents others might not.
Relationship, is quiet often based on a whole conglomerate of things, such as, trust, working together, solving problems, finances, establishing healthy mindset, just to name a few. Me and my fiance, are currently getting our finances in order.
Finally, in regards to Huma Abedin’s relationship, they say love is blind, it seems it really is. No i mean it, it really is, her husband’s skirt colour, certainly is not the right shade for me. What do you think?
Currently, British, unemployed, looking forward to his new job next year. getting married soon TBC....
December 9, 2011 at 2:34 am
Interesting article, however I strongly disagree with her ideology because the following reasons
1) She seems to assume that people of the book are somehow immune from polytheism/shirk. She didn’t provide a single verse apart from 2.221 and 5.5 to support her case. She needs to re-read chapter 5 Surah Al Maidah and chapter 9 Surah Al Tubah.
Surely, they have disbelieved who say: “Allâh is the Messiah Īsā (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary).” But the Messiah Īsā(Jesus) said: “O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.” Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers 5.72
Surely, disbelievers are those who said: “Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity).” But there is no llâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them. 5.73
Allah(swt) has described those who believe that Jesus(pbuh) as god and the Trinity as disbelievers and have committed shirk(by worshiping Jesus pbuh).
In Chapter 9
And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allâh. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of the those who disbelieved aforetime. Allâh’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!9.30
They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allâh (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allâh), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilâh (God – Allâh) Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory is to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).9.31
They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allâh’s Light (with which Muhammad SAW has been sent – Islâmic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allâh will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kâfirûn (disbelievers) hate (it).9.32
From chapter 9 , Allah(swt) described those among the people of book who believe Jesus(pbuh) and Ezra as sons of God as disbelievers. They have also committed shirk by following laws of their Rabbis and Priests.
In my opinion , verse 2.221 stills applies to the people of the book. Unless the author or supporters of her argument can provide evidence from the Quran which suggests people of the book are not polytheists.
Other verses that should be taken into considerations 5.51 and 9.23
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliyâ’ (*friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliyâ’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Auliyâ’), then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allâh guides not those people who are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).
5.51
If Muslim women were allowed to “marry” men from people of the book , wouldn’t that make their husbands as Auliya( Guardians/protectors)? And by doing so , Muslim women would be going against the laws of Allah(swt) be among the Zalimun?
I believe the following verse ( 9.23) should be the deal breaker to those who still believe its okay to marry men from people of the book.
O you who believe! Take not for Auliyâ’ (supporters and helpers) your fathers and your brothers if they prefer disbelief to Belief. And whoever of you does so, then he is one of the Zâlimûn (wrong-doers)9.23
From this verse , Allah(swt) commanded us if our Father/brothers decide to follow another religion other than Islamic Monotheism then we should not consider them as Auliyah. And if we do that , then we are among the Zalimun. So by having a Jewish/Christian man as a husband who does not believe in the shahada , or associates partners Allah(swt) , he will also be the Wali of her children. If the children were raised as Muslims in this “marriage” and consider their father as their Wali, then they maybe categorised as among the Zalimun. But Allah knows best because its not their fault that their mother made a bad choice.
Musa
December 12, 2011 at 4:52 am
Musa, actually from that analysis you are correct. I am not biased, so I will admit you have good points that people should keep in mind. But the only problem is when we categorize all christians/jews to be believing that way. There are many many christians who are just born christian, but in their heart believe in only one God and don’t practice their faith as they were taught. But it takes wisdom and sight to see into the soul of a person and to see the sincerty. I ended up marrying one such person because on the outside though he claimed to be christian, his beliefs were muslim, monotheistic and when he learned about islam, which cannot be done in a day..he actually converted as a muslim..but that takes time and patience from our muslim community. Its up to each individual who they marry, thats not our business, God gave us free will and He will judge us with His infinite knowledge. But it is important for all things to be considered and its our job to give dawah in the best way that Allah will be pleased with us. We are not allowed to make religion compulsory for anyone..but to teach the belief with compassion is more effective than the harsh way many people approach. Salam.
islam
December 12, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Good day sister Islam.
Congratulations on marrying a revert to Islam, mashalla!!.
I should have made myself more clear in my previous comment that not all people of the book commit some form of shirk. For example I heard that Unitarian Christians don’t believe that Jesus(pbuh) is son of God or the Trinity, but I am not too sure. There are some verses which support this argument.
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] – those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve2.62
And indeed, among the People of the Scripture are those who believe in Allah and what was revealed to you and what was revealed to them, [being] humbly submissive to Allah . They do not exchange the verses of Allah for a small price. Those will have their reward with their Lord. Indeed, Allah is swift in account.3.199
But lets be realistic, the majority of Christians these days[even if they are not practicing] still believe that Jesus(pbuh) is son of God and the Trinity. While some do have monotheistic believes or believe that the Bible is too distorted.
I don’t know the methods you used to revert your husband to Islam but I wouldn’t recommend for a Muslim sister to try and “convert” the guy all by herself. Because he could convert for the sake of marriage and not for Allah(swt). Rather the Muslim woman male relatives and reliable Imam should teach the guy about Islam based on the Quran and the Sunnah. After reasonable amount of time, if the guy accepts Islam then Alhamdulliah. If he rejects Islam and still believes that Jesus(pbuh) is son of God and only obtain salvation by believing in him etc, then the guy should accept the fact the marriage is invalid and it will just be fornication.
Even though we have free will to marry who ever we want , we should keep in mind that prophet Mohmmed (pbuh) said that marriage is the completion of the second half of our Iman/faith. So we should carefully choose someone who brings closer to Allah(swt) and the other way around. And also remember that this life is a test and we should always conscious about the decisions we make and the likely consequences in the hereafter.
Every soul will taste death, and you will only be given your [full] compensation on the Day of Resurrection. So he who is drawn away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise has attained [his desire]. And what is the life of this world except the enjoyment of delusion3.185
Regardless of my opinion stated above , I think in 10-15 years time this kind of interfaith marriage will become more common where I live( small town in Australia) and in the West in genera
, because role of Muslim women is changing and the reasons used by scholars to prohibit such kinds of marriages are becoming outdated . However the strength of one’s Iman/faith , personal experience and how Muslim women perceive Muslim men should be main factors that will lead to a personal choice of marriage. Inshalla it will be the right decision.
Musa
December 14, 2011 at 11:26 pm
Actually, there is nothing that seems to prohibit it. And furthermore, if the girl is Muslim, and the guy is a Christian or is Jewish, and they agree from before getting married to raise the kids Muslim, then what’s wrong with it. FYI- there are plenty of “Muslim” men who don’t give women any rights so the argument that anyone other than a Muslim man won’t give the Muslim women her rights is ridiculous. In addition, since kids spend most of their time with their mom, the argument that it’s okay for men to marry Christian or Jewish women because their kids will take after their dad’s religion is also invalid.
K.
December 19, 2011 at 5:40 am
It’s a myth that muslim females are not marrying non-muslim men. It’s very common in states of former USSR that girls born in muslim families married non-muslim men. I know several cases also in Finland, Sweden and Norway were somaligirls have married local non-muslim men.Emmanuel Todd also shows in Le destin des immigrés that the rate of mixed marriages for Algerian women grew from 6.2 per cent to 27.5 per cent between 1975 and 1990. For Moroccan women it increased from 4 per cent to 13 per cent. In the areas where most Muslims live, individual values are emerging today in a strong way alongside consumer society. Witness the growth of mixed marriages, including those of immigrant women, the problems of the Muslim associations, weakened parental authority and the very few religion-based schools.
Markus
December 19, 2011 at 11:27 am
As an Atheist i can say its a question of power , money , open mindedness , close mindedness and of love as a whole , Well, God , as we say , We argue about something in general we don’t really know much about ourselves , Just because our forefathers and people before that laid a set of rules to guide us in our life , It doesn’t mean we have to follow it forever , What about before Islam and Christianity ?
People still lived under their own and Queen such as Cleopatra and Nefertetti were great rulers , Women can know and assume high position,they can also decide for themselves . And people lived and married freely before Islam , at the end ,Every person is truely un religious , Religion is like a passing breeze and they change and evolve with Time.
As for the question at hand , What do you think is the physical difference between a muslim man and a non – muslim man ? Its in the law ,just a law laid by Quran .
Why didn’t Quran lay down its law in Jesus;s time ? or in that of Egyptian Empire , or that of the greeks or Roman ? Why was the law like that just in the time of Mahummad in Arabia ? Why did God choose only that time and that place ?
Law is a subject , it is supposed to Evolve . Law grows as humanity grows , Law changes as humanity changes , We have a whole lot ahead of us , So why not look ahead ? Why do you think most of the people winning Nobel prizes , making great inventions were not muslim ?
What does following anything blindly ever get people ? What do you think the Kaa-ba is ? Its the part of a meteor , It came from space ? Up in the sky ,there is no God , Its space and we all know that ,we just never think of our world , our universe , our Earth , or even our bodies or even nature ,We never Think for ourselves , we never investigate everything , We just believe because is taught or because everyone does.
All humans are equal regardless if religion or race , Remember that , So is marriage .
If i go and marry a muslim girl today , Will god kill me ? No, nothing will happen , Being scared of Afterlife is like being scared of the time before you were born . Life is what we make of it . Learn And Educate people , and celebrate Christmas,Deepawali, Guru parav and Id ,you can be an atheist and still celebrate and still have morality . im a human
Digvjay
December 24, 2011 at 6:55 pm
muslim man can not marry non muslim women
what is ur point? there
s
January 18, 2012 at 11:18 pm
The problem I have with this entire debate is this. Muslim parents immigrate to non-muslim countries. They encourage their daughters to get educated. All fine and dandy. We are independent, financially secure, good girls, etc. But when it comes to marriage, we are out of luck. How on earth are we supposed to find a muslim man in a non-muslim country? Hello, heard of the word “minority”?? Try shopping for mangoes in a meat market — ain’t gonna find them.
So if the years go by and in our 40s the nice muslim girls find a nice nonmuslim but believing man to marry – who get’s the blame? The parents who put us in this situation while maintaining their own safe and secure bubble? The “community” that did not lift a fingernail to help us muslim girls who were not “fair, slim and lovely”?
I find it very difficult to believe that God would not be merciful in this situation. I just find it very difficult to believe that. Do the empirical study folks. The number of never-married muslim women age 35+ far exceeds the number of never-married nonmuslim women of the same age group in the general population. The same statistics do not hold true for muslim men.
disheartened desi chick
January 9, 2012 at 11:29 pm
I am looking for an imam that will perform a nikah of muslim bride with a non-muslim groom. Does anyone know of one?
BrideToBe
January 12, 2012 at 1:43 am
I am Christian, and my girlfriend is Muslim. We love each other, and it kills us both to think that there is no possibility of a future for us together.
She showed me some passages that forbade women from marrying non-Muslim men. I know these are not from the Qur’an, as I have read it.
My point of view is that, in Islam, the Qur’an is divine; it is the word of God. However the Hadith are an interpretation of the Qur’an by men; and therefore not divine.
I’m at a loss at what to do.
ManOfTheBook
January 12, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Man of the Book, don’t be at a loss. We were in your shoes..and we are married and have a wonderful life together..better than we could make ourselves, God made it the best. The Quran does not forbid muslim women to marry ‘non muslim’ men..it says non believers. If you believe the Quran is divine, you have realized that there couldnt be such a book in arabic with so much information that human beings didnt know at the time. That the similar information presented in aramaic and hebrew came at a time in arabic which is miraculously possible bc there was no technology. You then could probably realize that if its divine, there is a God who is the beginning and the end, who is all knowing..you then can probably accept what basic islam is about, and unfortunately shahada must be said, the point being there is no God but one God and when Muhammad came with the message, he was not son of god or anything is but a messenger. Once u say shahada, you have the title as a believer, even though seems like you already are. I know this is sad that people have made it like this, but revere God in your heart and do some research and you can find the peace that you are wanting. Good luck! for more info, contact me at yahoo17ster@gmail.com
guiding light
February 6, 2012 at 4:22 am
At least the first part of your shahada is right: “there is nog god!”
JJ.Rousseau
February 8, 2012 at 7:56 pm
J.J., just wondering..how do you not believe in God, have you seen the birth of babies..do you see when the rain comes down how it is life is provided to us bc of it. The Earth has everything in balance so we can live, if it went out of sync, we would not be alive…have you nothing inside of you that doesnt say, you cannot create the world..so there could be something more powerful than u that created you..just a power, without a face? and if so, being disrespectful and arrogant may not help you when you are powerless? Just sayin kiddo..
islam
February 9, 2012 at 1:16 pm
[...] sa noe lignende, da han ble spurt om hvordan han ville reagert hvis barna hans ytret ønske om å gifte seg med ikke-muslimer: “I would naturally prefer someone to share the principles of being a Muslim. But it’s [...]
– De har akseptert at jeg ikke tror på islam « Muslimprosjektet
January 29, 2012 at 11:32 pm
Hey!
It is clear from what stands in the Quran, that both muslim men and women cannot marry people who belive in several gods, for example: Hindus.
But lets honest here, in India muslim still marry hindu women! And do they get critezised? No!
Its accepted, because hes a man.
But when a muslim lady marries a man whos not muslim, he can be a jew, christian or “hindu” og simply just an atheist. And people go all crasy! She isnt considered a good lady anymore.
Stop this hipocrisy.
Im a muslim myself. And to be honest, it doesnt say anything in the Quran about this issue:
Muslim women+ non-muslim. So how can Ulama forbid this?
Another thing that bothers me, is that people here say, well its because the kids follow the father.
Well in reality this is not true!
Ive seen a few examples of this kind of intermarrige, and the kids turn up muslim.
But most of them follow the culture of the mother, som even say (ironicly) im half “muslim”.
This is because the muslim men who marry outside their faith, dont really care about teaching Islam.
They just go with the flow, but they seem to care when the kid is a teenager and then its to late to make ur kid “muslim”.
And fine it says in the Quran, muslim men can marry christian/jewish women.
But in reality they marry agnostic or atheist women. Women who dont follow their religion.
The true jewish woman and christian, they marry somebody of their own!
ofcourse it can happen, but its rare. They marry “unbelivers”, and yet muslim men dont get rumors and pointing fingers at them. But if a muslim lady did this, she wouldnt get the same treatment.
I think that you should marry somebdy who has the same religion as you, but if its true LOVE, then you cant just let it go?…
PS: Just stop critezing the muslim women, look at the men, im very tired of theese dobble standers.
ds
February 1, 2012 at 2:30 pm
I’m a muslim lady but I’m dating a christain guy
olabimpe ibironke raimot
February 4, 2012 at 11:12 pm
this is a totally harram
if u r like the person then he convert into muslim.
asif
February 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm
i agree with u
saiprince
February 14, 2012 at 3:10 pm
The Quran (ie: G-d) does not outright forbid a muslim woman from marrying a “person of the book.”
It was the Islamic jurists over a millenia ago that decided it was unfavourable for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim based on the patriarichal realities of the day. Society is not the same as it was back in early Islamic times, and the evolution of islamic law is fundamental to our jurisprudence.
Here’s what I think: If a woman is convinced by the laws set out by early islamic jurists (that such a union is forbidden) then she should not get married to a non-muslim. If however, she believes that the quran has allowed her this flexibility, then she should marry whom she pleases. She will have to face G-d and answer for her actions either way.
Let us stop judging each other and leave the judging to our creator.
thinker
February 19, 2012 at 3:54 am
Early Islamic Arabia (even current Arabia, for that matter), was a male-dominated society. So, It should come as no surprise that the all-male jurists created a law to maintain control over their women’s lives.
Placing a more restrictive ruling for women on who they could choose as thier spouse, was and continues to be, just another way for the muslim men to uphold thier archaic mentalities of gender superiority.
jamal
February 19, 2012 at 4:10 am
i m(surojit- hooghly) a hindu man. i love a muslim girl(babli-birbhum). she also loves me very much. the only burden of our relation is her mother & father. they are dead against of this relationship. they r blackmailing her in the name of islam by saying that they will commit to sucide if she(my love) ahed further. we both r crying now.we both r not well right now.we also have a pious physical relationship. but still my love is afraid of leaving house for her parents. can anybody say is it correct or religion is bigger than a true love.religion is for mankind, mankind is not for religion. m i correct? we both from socalled cultural state, west bengal
surojit manna
February 21, 2012 at 9:29 am
surojit, maybe you can tell them you want to learn about islam..one step closer? unfortunately that area of the world it is almost impossible otherwise to marry between the religions. sorry for you, pray that there is help from a Higher Power..
peace
February 21, 2012 at 9:13 pm
i have been seeing a Muslim girl for over 4 yrs, and i am catholic, i have religious tattoos, im studying the Islam, now im thinking about converting but will my tattoos be a problem?
guesst
February 25, 2012 at 12:43 am
Masha Allah brother guesst,
First of all, discontinue your relationship with this girl (even if it isn’t physical one) and repent and study Islam by seeking the help through Mosques, Islamic Centres and online resource. Once you become Muslim iA; then approach this sister’s parents in a humble way for her hand in marriage. If their is no one to act as your wali, then you can approach your local imam to act as wali. You can have them removed if you can bear the pain but it is not a big issue because whatever you did before becoming Muslim will be wiped off of slate iA (by the will of Allah s.w.t; the Merciful and Almighty). May Allah (swt) help you through with your conversion and also throughout your life and bless you both.
James82
March 14, 2012 at 7:05 pm
this is an intriguing blog post. it left me with a thought and I could play with that thought as you gave me ideas. Thank you. Sometimes I think the religion is too misogynistic that it made us women .. feel seconded? is that the correct term??
i’m a muslim woman myself and i’m open to dating men with different religions. in my country though (i must not state where) a muslim marriage (just muslim) will not be legalized if one of the partners is of different religion. there are cases where a muslim citizen marries another with a different faith but they do so in the neighbouring countries where it is legal. sometimes the justification of the legal system is pretty unfair but love is blind and as humans, we all are. i don’t think religion is the barrier. if your faith is strong enough, why worry?
just saying my thoughts here in this post. everyone can speak freely.
F.D.R.
March 6, 2012 at 8:26 pm
After having read all the comments and replays there is a definite lack of understanding of Islam.
alina Rose Lima
March 9, 2012 at 7:40 am
Hey, at the end of the day, its all voice down to your own decision/s . Be it about the faith,believe etc..
What ever your decision is yours. IF its bad, its yours, if its good its yours too..
Islam is a beautiful religion and i have every single believe that other religions are too good and beautiful .
There is no religion that condamns others. its all up to you on how YOU interpreted them.
What i can say is the world will be a better place if we all respects each others more and not be either racist or stereo-typing on one issue.
Be nice to everyone, smile and love everyone.. Marry the person you love and like. Because at the end of the day, its because of the Fruit of good and bad who make us behaving this way.. after all, we all are family from different parents and time.
Poseidon & Leila
Yattz
March 26, 2012 at 12:33 pm
I m hindu but i don’t believe that hindu men can’t marry muslim women.Bcse hindu & muslim were of same country they r only seperated by land not frm our heart,i like all religion and rspct their culture.
Dhurba
April 4, 2012 at 11:01 am
This thread doesn’t help me, I am not a Christian or a Jew. My family are Buddhists and the country over here, people see each other as a person, not by religion. I myself doesn’t care who or what religion that person is, but I know the Muslims care. This thread is too American oriented, and I’m not an American.
Siem
April 17, 2012 at 2:01 pm
if you muslim and you understand islam you never ever marry non muslim man and women if he or she 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 money he or she is not muslim atfirst you read kuran and shohee hadit both women and man both are read and understand ALLAHO SUBHANO TALA SAID ABOUT MUSLIM AND NON MUSLIM AND ALSO SAID THATS CULTURE AND BEHABER WRITHS WOMEN AND MAN BOTH AREE IS NTY MUSLIM MAN AND WOMEN CONFUSED YOU ASKED ME I CAN TRY TO ANSWERER I AM UNMARRIED 42 YEARS OLD MANY WOMEN THEY ARE ARE NON MUSLIM AND HER PROPERTIS AND ALL SIDE APRIENCE IS SO GOOD THATS I CAN NOT DISCRIB ITS BUT YEAT I CAN NOT MARRY HER BECAUSS OF SHE IS NON MUSLIM contuct me if any guy if he or she out of muslim culture and muslim rulse he or she must be non muslim shahinislamkhan26@gmail.com shahin islam khan
any man and woman
May 19, 2012 at 3:35 am
I am not a Muslim, I thought I was making it clear. It seems your typing already shows me you don’t know English so much.
Siem
May 20, 2012 at 9:09 pm
This article is bullshit. Notice how he conveniently left this out of his “research”.
– (2:221) “وَلَا تَنكِحُوا الْمُشْرِكَاتِ حَتَّىٰ يُؤْمِنَّ وَلَأَمَةٌ مُّؤْمِنَةٌ خَيْرٌ مِّن مُّشْرِكَةٍ وَلَوْ أَعْجَبَتْكُمْ وَلَا تُنكِحُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَتَّىٰ يُؤْمِنُوا وَلَعَبْدٌ مُّؤْمِنٌ خَيْرٌ مِّن مُّشْرِكٍ وَلَوْ أَعْجَبَكُمْ أُولَٰئِكَ يَدْعُونَ إِلَى النَّارِ وَاللَّهُ يَدْعُو إِلَى الْجَنَّةِ وَالْمَغْفِرَةِ بِإِذْنِهِ وَيُبَيِّنُ آيَاتِهِ لِلنَّاسِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ
And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.”
Muslim guy
May 21, 2012 at 2:31 pm